Phil Suess and the Big Ten Mindset for Life

In this episode of Courageous Crossroads, Jeff Johnson sits down with longtime friend and respected business leader Phil Suess for a thoughtful conversation about resilience, leadership, and the courage to step beyond one’s comfort zone. Phil shares how losing his position in a family business at age 59 forced him to confront uncertainty, reject a victim mentality, and envision a new chapter in which his decades of experience could continue serving others. A former University of Iowa quarterback, Phil draws on lessons learned from football, business, marriage, and fatherhood to explain why courage requires focus, personal responsibility, and the ability to see yourself succeeding before the outcome is certain. Raised in the Midwest, Phil earned his business degree from the University of Iowa, built a successful 31-year career in the construction industry, and now applies his leadership experience in a new business role while
mentoring others through seasons of professional and personal transition.

Thank you for listening! We hope you feel inspired and encouraged by our conversation today. If you did, be sure to share this episode with others.

Let’s stay in touch:

• Follow us on Instagram @crossroadsapologetics
• Email us at info@crossroadsapologetics.org
• Visit our website www.crossroadsapologetics.org

See you in the next episode! Be blessed!

Full Transcript

ANNOUNCER: Welcome to Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics, a look into what motivates us to step out and courage, and the everyday bravery of men and women like you. In each episode, we hear a personal story of bravery centered around this question. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And now your host, founder of Crossroads Apologetics, Jeff Johnson.

JEFF JOHNSON: Hey everybody, it’s Jeff. Welcome back to another edition of the Courageous Crossroads Podcast. I have got a dear friend of mine up next, Phil Seuss. I had the opportunity to sit next to each other in a business forum for a number of years. And I learned so much from him. And I wasn’t going to let him get away when he graduated out of the forum. So he and I have stayed connected as have several people that have been in that forum, stayed connected. And I had a wonderful time sitting down with him and catching up a little bit and specifically picking his brain on this topic of courage. And I’m going to absolutely love what Phil has to say. So without further ado, here is my friend Phil. Well, I really appreciate you doing this. Everybody, this is my dear friend Phil Seuss that has come on the Courageous Crossroads. Phil, how are you?

PHIL SEUSS: I’m doing great. Thank you, Jeff.

JEFF JOHNSON: It’s such a pleasure to have you on. You know, you have some people in your life that you go way back with. And Phil and I were in a forum together for a number of years. And this guy poured so much into me that it’s really been a blessing. So I was tickled to have you come on. I’m glad that you agreed to be interviewed Phil. It’s wonderful.

PHIL SEUSS: I think our YPO experiences, you know, has been so beneficial for me. And how how we make. How we kind of come together semi randomly. And we become lifelong friends and catch right back up where we were. And just catch right back up. We could be apart for five years. And then all of a sudden boom, you know, we’re right there and laughing about, you know, different jokes and things like that. And, you know, it’s it’s a it’s really cool. It’s really cool. It’s really fun to connect reconnect again, Jeff, with you.

JEFF JOHNSON: I agree. And the last time we cut up with each other was out on the golf course. Do you want to tell the listeners who’s the better golfer Phil or should we leave that off or?

PHIL SEUSS: No, I you know, I don’t hold any pride there or anything like that. There isn’t anybody that hits the ball further than you. And, you know, that that comes from really, really good eye hand coordination. And that’s what that’s exactly what you have. And a lot of lasagna.

JEFF JOHNSON: Yeah. And a lot of the sun.

PHIL SEUSS: That’s right. Just easy back, easy through, you know, it’s all it’s all good.

JEFF JOHNSON: Yeah, wonderful. Well, put your, um, for listeners, forgive me. I, it is hot here in my studio as I’m recording this. So I’m glad that this is audio only and you’re, you don’t have to suffer through watching me dab my forehead. It’s like 100. It’s like 96 degrees outside. And the heat index is 117. And I’ve got an AC that’s not quite keeping up today. It is just red hot.

PHIL SEUSS: Oh my gosh.

JEFF JOHNSON: It’s cool where you’re at, isn’t it Phil? I see a rabbit’s eye.

PHIL SEUSS: Well, we got the same stuff that you do and are you in Des Moines?

JEFF JOHNSON: Yeah.

PHIL SEUSS: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s the upper Midwest here is just roasting. It’s miserable.

JEFF JOHNSON: Well, um, Phil, we talk about courage here on the courageous crossroads podcast. And we come down to the one question. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And I’m not going to ask you that just yet. But we’re working our way up to that. I got a couple other questions for you. The first is who are you? Where are you from? Who are your people? Give me a give me a five minute elevator speech on Phil sus to catch people up with who it is. I’m talking to.

PHIL SEUSS: You know, I’m a Midwestern born Chicago raised a grade school in Kansas City, Des Moines, Des Moines High School, and I’m just going to be telling actually and then played football and got a business degree up at the University of Iowa. I met my wife there. We moved to Cedar Rapids. We have three three beautiful children and they’re married and they got great kids. And I’ve always been a business person and I’m in my second business now where. I’m using my leadership skills at the best right now. And yeah, it’s been a great it’s been a great journey. It’s been a great journey great great experience at Iowa. A lot of life lessons there and. You know, I’ve been able to apply those lessons to a lot of life, whether it’s working with our kids, working with our wives or working with. Business associates, you know, people that that work in the business. So. I think that’s where I’m at right now.

JEFF JOHNSON: Phil’s being pretty complimentary to me about the golf stuff Phil holds a zone on the golf course because you’re an athlete. You got great. I hand coordination and all of that kind of stuff. So along with being a great businessman, you are a great athlete. What position did you play for the archives Phil?

PHIL SEUSS: I was a quarterback. So I was a quarterback out of Dowling and tall stringy kind of guys six five 165 pound all stayed quarterback for the Dowling Maroons and Bob Cummings gave. And Jim Swift to scholarship. We were both Jim Swift and I around the same team went up to Iowa Jim started and played played a lot sooner than I did took me four years to to get a starting role Jim Jim was a starter as a. I think he started his freshman year and again, you know, separate but the same type of experiences and you know life lifelong friends you work you compete. You go to school with people that you meet in college and then you know, you still you still have all those relationships plus all the things you learned.

JEFF JOHNSON: And that’s cool is I’m always curious from people that have experienced, you know, that level of athletic endeavor is is. Are your business pursuits more difficult or your athletic endeavors more difficult? What’s the hardest harder hill decline?

PHIL SEUSS: You know what’s funny is I think I mean, obviously the physical strain of playing football or basketball or baseball, whatever that is is, you know, obviously 24 or 7 pounding on your brain. But in business, you know, it’s not the physical strain and you don’t get you do in business, you don’t get instantaneous feedback. So we would play a game on Saturday and we’d watch film on Sunday and you get you get graded and then the next week you go you go work on it and you don’t have that kind of feedback system in business. You know, you can have an interaction with someone and then you sit back and say, well, how’d that go, you know, you can you can do some of that, but you might work on a deal that takes two years to close or you know, I remember your business about, you know, finding projects and working on. And you know, you know, you can work on a you can work on a bid and may not get it, you know, spend a lot of time and resources, you know, those are, you don’t get the instantaneous feedback in business like you do in sports. So it’s tough for them in business. And so in certain ways, yeah, I don’t have to worry about my knees or shoulders or Terry, tape the linebacker coming in clobbering me in the office, you know, we laugh at that, but you know, that’s that’s kind of funny.

JEFF JOHNSON: Was there a particular, I’ll ask you a little microtopic here was there a particular courageous moment that you experienced as an athlete at the university.

PHIL SEUSS: And I know it air I’ll give you I’ll give you the best example I can give that continues with me forever and however, and I share that with as many people as possible and this was so. And I was with you. Hey, I just arrived at Iowa and we’re having a springtime scrimmage with the spring football and at the beginning of spring football, I got named the number one quarterback and but I had like eight scrimmages to, you know, blow it. There was just this one play and I can’t remember what scrimmage was there was just this one play that you know, I was just a little slow on and hate fried came over and he got he got he got right in my face. He says Phil. He says you can’t play big 10 football if you don’t make that play. And all of a sudden, you know, I said well we’re going to run the play again and all of a sudden I ran the play and I did it on time and you know it required certain footwork and everything like that. I’m a lefty so everything’s backwards and you know, I thought, you know, Hayden wasn’t speaking Greek to me it was just like, you know, you you got to do this you can do this and it’s like, okay, and there I go. So the point the point is the point of the story is you have to visualize you have to visualize anything that you’re going to do. You get you got to project yourself into that role that you’re going to you are going to do it and and in that circumstance, I you know, I wasn’t I wasn’t in a prize fight right it had nothing to do with beating someone up. It had everything to do with controlling all the emotions and all the physical movements that I had that, you know, culminated in the execution of this play. And you know, if you don’t see yourself walking into a room full of people and and you could be a little bit nervous and you know it’s it’s a you know I got something important to say to people here and let’s you know let’s get going. And you know you you exude that confidence on the people is like, hey, you know, I can listen to this guy and and in that in that circumstance, it’s like, okay, you could I I want to play big 10 football, it never played big 10 football either. And I’m going to I’m going to play big 10 football and so I made the play.

JEFF JOHNSON: I love that that’s great. That’s a perfect example, which leads leads perfectly into my next question, how do you define courage? What’s the Phil Soost definition for courage?

PHIL SEUSS: You know, I think it’s you know at its simplest form is is just kind of extending yourself out of your comfort zone. I think that I think that’s it. I think that’s the ability to see yourself and and maybe something that you hadn’t done before. Okay, and you may not have perfect confidence. You may not even had feedback on having done it before, but you know you can see yourself doing it and I think that’s what helps us get there. When I say get there, get to the other side. Yeah, yeah, that activity that you’re trying to try to do or you know persuade someone or communicate with someone, you know.

JEFF JOHNSON: So you would not associate courage necessarily with comfort. Everything’s just lots of fair, pretty peaceful going down the road.

PHIL SEUSS: I wouldn’t associate I wouldn’t associate it with comfort. Correct.

JEFF JOHNSON: Yeah, yeah. Who represents courage to you? Do you have examples in your life? It could be a historical figure. It could be somebody in your family or somebody in popular culture.

PHIL SEUSS: Let’s look at you know, let’s look at Caitlin Clark for a second. You know, that’s top of mine. That’s top of mine. You got a 24 year old woman, you know, pretty much pretty much Iowa born and raised and you know, she’s she’s out in the world projecting yourself and you know projecting yourself and communicating in some pretty gosh darn positive ways. And then if you watch the social media a little bit, you know, President Barack Obama greets her and says, you keep that up. You don’t listen to that other stuff, you know, and his his recollection was he didn’t become famous until he was 45. So he had he had some maturity before, you know, he got into the public eye, you know, Caitlin Clarks been in the public ice and she was 20. And he comes over and puts his R rounder and you know talks about that and gives her, you know, hey, you know, you’re doing great. You know, keep keep pumping away. And I mean, that’s some, you know, that’s some immediate immediate feedback right right in front of our face right now. You can see it.

JEFF JOHNSON: I think that’s a great example, Phil.

PHIL SEUSS: You know, carry carry a good message, you know, carry a good message because there’s lots of people complaining about everything. You know, that’s that’s the national past time.

JEFF JOHNSON: Well, listen to me starting off this podcast complaining about how hot it is here in my studio. I mean, I’m the worst one. And I think you’re right. I think I think Caitlin’s courage is probably demonstrated with how much we don’t hear her complain about anything other than you know, she’s just trying to put a positive message forward. So I think you’re right in there.

PHIL SEUSS: Yeah, she could probably complain a little less to the reps, but you know what if she’s got to get suspended a couple times and you know, that’s part of the part of the growing up process, you know, it’s. You know, maybe there’s some tough lessons out ahead of her yet to yet to fulfill, but you know, at the moment she’s a she’s a pretty positive influence.

JEFF JOHNSON: Yeah, she sure is. Okay, I think I think our I think our tables set here, Phil. I’m going to ask you the question, Phil, so what’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done.

PHIL SEUSS: You know, I thought I thought about that and I’m going to I’m going to go to I was 59 years old. And I got told by my brother in law that I had to go find another job. I couldn’t work at the family business. And that was pretty pretty crushing you, you, you and I cross paths at that time and our friend, our friend Jim von Mar had called out and said, hey, let’s, let’s help our friend Phil. And, and that was a that was a pretty awesome. That was a pretty awesome thing where where our us guys got together and and actually we’ve gone out and played golf. Right. You know, burn off a little energy, but but I thought, but I thought about that, you know, the, you know, I’ve been thinking about since I got the invitation from your assistant and you know courageous. It’s like, well, I haven’t done anything in my life that’s been life threatening. I have a gone to war, I haven’t carried a gun. And that kind of police work or anything like that. I haven’t, I haven’t saved anybody’s life, you know, by putting my self in danger. So what, what else, you know, we had kids, had kids, we did all kinds of business. You know, I was in the construction business for 31 years and unfortunately, we, I went to two funerals, but I don’t think that’s courageous. It’s, you know, you’re the representative of the company and you kind of go to those things. And, you know, I cried when I talked to those mothers, but I think losing a job at 59 was was, was, I wasn’t afraid, but I did get out of my comfort zone. I, you know, I hit the ground running, but it was, that was not a pleasant period.

JEFF JOHNSON: And was that a shock to you when that happened?

PHIL SEUSS: Yes, it was. It was, again, very, very disappointing thought, you know, as with any company, right, with any company, you always have changes in leadership, right? And when, you know, founders and elders move on and so you always have the young folks move in and, you know, there’s, there’s kind of a right way. There’s like 100 right ways to do it and a 100 bad ways to do it. I feel like we checked all the boxes about how to do it badly. And so the build up to that was, the build up to that was kind of quite unnerving as well.

JEFF JOHNSON: The, the courageous piece of that is being able to look that thing in the face and behave appropriately or be able to look that thing in the face and walk right through it or what? Give me more description of that.

PHIL SEUSS: You know, it was going back to you can’t play big 10 football. If you don’t make that play. And so it was like, well, you know, I can, I can minimize all 31 years of experience and feel badly for myself and feel like I’m the victim. And what was me and oh my god, what am I going to do or, or the flip side of it is, you know, I’ve, I’ve been a successful business person. I’ve done these things for different people. I can do it for others. And so that was, you know, I developed a little tagline. You know, when I was, you know, reaching out and making contacts to my, to my friends and business associates and everything like that, my tagline was, I’m looking for management teams and transition. So I wasn’t picking up the phone and calling Jeff Johnson and say, hey, you know any jobs around. That was rather, you know, that just, that just wasn’t me. What was me was, you know, I work and interact with people. And like I said, by tagline was management teams and transition. So it could be, you know, so and so is retiring out. And I need, I need someone to fill a role or we’re starting a new business and, you know, you’ve got the background and experience to fit this role. And, you know, so I could have, I could have conversations in a way that number one worth threatening to the people I was talking to, right? I didn’t want their job. You know, I’m looking for management teams who are in transition. So bankers, accountants, you know, lawyers, you know, that that kind of expands the, expands the horizon a little bit. And so I had to project myself into what does success look like instead of being a victim. Yeah. And, you know, it’s, I mean, it’s just like this is you’re going to go left or you’re going to go right. It’s, it’s to me. It’s that black and white. And hopefully I’m left handed. So I went to the left side. That was the positive side.

JEFF JOHNSON: When I did, when I did a little, you reminded me of this Phil. So if I may put this in context, you’re, I did a little flight training and work my way up to get a flight instructor’s license. I only taught one guy how to fly and then I kind of got out of that business and got it. Something else. But anyway, when you’re learning those tools, you realize that people, people that you are teaching, okay? Up in an airplane in a little tiny cockpit, just a two of you, when they get into an uncomfortable situation like a stall, they do one of two things. Either they become oblivious to what’s going on around you. And they cannot focus at all. And it’s almost a complete irrational response to, you know, look how lovely everything is and why is everything tumbling around, you know, that sort of thing. All of their senses get sharpened and they get ultra focused and they do what they need to do much quicker, much faster with much more accuracy to get that plane straightened out. And it’s interesting to watch people because there are two different kinds of people, you know, they just go, they go one way or the other. And so what you’re describing to me is being confronted with a situation that really surprised you that meant your livelihood. And you focused instead of going, la la la la, you know, you focused. And to me, that is a real definition of courage. Am I saying that correctly?

PHIL SEUSS: Well, yeah, I would agree. And yeah, right. Again, courage is not life or death, but courage is facing something terribly uncomfortable about yourself. Right. And, and, and, and, you know, quickly recognizing, you know, you said the word focus, I agree there is an extreme amount of focus that occurs. And again, is it, is it left or is it right? Is it one or a zero? And the focus is, you know, I know a little bit about flying, you know, get your eyes on your, get your eyes on your instruments. Okay. And, and you have to divorce yourself from what, what you’re feeling. Okay. And, and, you know, you know, find a way to get that, that plane to level out. And that happens, you get the feedback right away. You know, you got the feedback like, oh my god, my stomach’s upset. You know, my eyes are going crazy. You know, whatever that is when you’re tumbling in it in a particular way, but, you know, losing your job is was kind of, kind of, kind of, kind of thing. And it’s like you do, you do, you know, you, you got to get your stuff back together. There is a focus. I agree with that.

JEFF JOHNSON: Would you have identified yourself as a courageous person before you got fired? I mean, did you feel like you had that in you, because you had the football thing already, but I don’t know.

PHIL SEUSS: No, I don’t. I think of myself as if I’m totally self-aware. I think of myself as having leadership characteristics. And, and, you know, it’s, it’s you are taking care of yourself, but you’re also thinking about others. And that’s what, you know, my, that’s my opinion of leadership in, and, you know, you’re leading, you’re leading, you know, people or a business or a group of people and, or a family, right? And, or, you know, or a group of spouses or, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m, now, I don’t want to say influence those folks, but it’s, it’s a, here, let’s, let’s, let’s go to this, let’s go to this concept. Let’s talk about this concept. Let’s, you know, let’s move, you know, let’s move in this path that, you know, everyone can kind of sink their teeth into.

JEFF JOHNSON: Now, what’s it do to you when you go through something like that because how many years ago was that?

PHIL SEUSS: That was eight, 2017, so nine years.

JEFF JOHNSON: Nine years ago. So, how long did it take for you to, I feel, I don’t want to feel like I’d use a colloquial term like land on your feet. That’s not really, but you know what I mean, to get right with yourself, to get.

PHIL SEUSS: So, that, that, so the, the event happened in July and then by the following February and March, I was restarting a new rule with a new company.

JEFF JOHNSON: So, you know, that, so the question is when you go through something like that and you have a courageous act, does that embolden you? I mean, is that put wind in your sales? I would imagine, you know, once you came on board with that new company, you were feeling a certain amount of, I can withstand anything. Is that accurate?

PHIL SEUSS: I can withstand anything. And then the other, the other aspect is someone else values me. So, again, think of the victim. The victim’s going to sit there and say, you know, I can’t hold a job. I can’t earn the same money I used to earn. I can’t, I can’t do this. I can’t do that. Nobody likes me. I can’t, you know, I’m not relevant or, or, you know, by, by me joining this group. I was, I was a little bit like, hey, you know, I get a chance to start a new role and I’m learning new things. And, you know, what, what past experiences and knowledge can I apply? And so that was, you know, that was immediately beneficial. I’m pretty good with contracts. I’m not a lawyer, but I’m pretty good with contracts. In this particular business, we have contracts all over the place. We have contracts with landlords. We have contracts with banks. We have contracts with our customers. And, so that’s, you know, I kind of picked up where I left off in that respect.

JEFF JOHNSON: It’s, it’s impressive, Phil. And this is the part where, you know, our listeners are just going to have to take a drink of their coffee or lower the volume or whatever. Because I’m going to slobber on you a little bit. You know, I’m blessed to have these wonderful men around me that represent real excellence. And some of them, you can look at the decimal point and you can look at the business and that, that’s it. But I think it’s when things happen to you that are, that are detrimental or that are a little bit dangerous, that are a little bit, you know, out of the blue. And then to see how you walk through it, that’s when you see the real character in somebody and that’s when you really know what you’ve got. And I saw you walk through that, Phil, and I’m telling you, it, it got on me to such an extent that I felt like I had confidence after I saw you go, you all feel can do this. You know, then I can do this too. So I’ll stop slavering on you there, but I’ll put it back to you and say, do you feel like courage is contagious like that? It happened to me. Because I, I was a recipient of your good act.

PHIL SEUSS: Let me just say this while. Okay, so thank you very much. That’s a lovely comment compliment and I, and I certainly appreciate it. I, I, I think through our YPO meetings and our group togetherness and, you know, I feel the same way of, of all of our members. And, and you as well, because I conducted with you about a family business and, and, and where you were at and the things that you were doing and, you know, I think there’s, I, I think you’ve gone through a lot of courageous events that have, have guided you to this point in your life, just like me. And, and it can be inspiring. I think there is, it is catching and, you know, if we were all having a pity party, you can see where that goes that goes down the toilet. But generally speaking, you know, whether it be, you know, I’ll say this very close and personal relationships with our spouses are close and personal relationships with our children and having the effect that that we do. And, and I, and I, I’ll just go off on another tangent. Mary and I, my wife’s name is Mary. We’ve been very, very, very lucky. Our children are strong and able bodied and now they’re currently paying taxes. So they’re tax paying adults and, and, you know, we were blessed. And, you know, we were blessed. We were lucky that those kids sort of followed our steps, our footsteps and, you know, we didn’t have any kids. Luckily, you know, they got caught up in drugs or, you know, God forbid, you know, families that, families that have to wrestle that, you know, that’s, that’s courage. You know, where your son or daughter is, is, you know, not as outside the boundary of what you and your wife might find comforting or comfortable. And so we’ve been very, very lucky in that respect. But back to our, I’ll bring it back to our YPO team members. You know, courage, courage, leadership, responsibility is contagious. And it does rub off. And, you know, that’s the, that’s the nature of passing things on.

JEFF JOHNSON: Amen to that. And, yeah, absolutely. To that end. I mean, you’re walking around, Phil, equipped with something. I’ve shared this many times on this podcast that I’m a recovering person. And we say in the recovery community that we don’t regret the things of the past, nor do we wish to repeat them. But we comprehend the word serenity and we’ve come to no peace. So it’s kind of like a Ben Franklin version of the stuff that doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. But it really, but it really does. And you’ve experienced something that other people maybe necessarily won’t ever have to go through. But you can speak very clearly about it. Have you, have you run into people that were facing the same situation or have gone through the same situation that you’ve gone through?

PHIL SEUSS: Just a handful of times. And, you know, it’s a bit, it’s, I thought of, you know, my comments to those people were, you know, I was trying to take the curse off of you’re not the victim. So, you know, the first thing is is, you know, whatever skills you have, you know, they are, they are yours and not to be taken away by anybody else. And then the other part was, not putting the pressure on yourself of, well, I got to get a job. Let me get somebody on the phone. Hey, you got a job for me. And I shared that my tagline in that I was looking for businesses with changes, changes going on in management. And that, and, you know, what, what, what, and what that meant was is that I was a person that could fit in a group of people that, you know, whatever changes were going on in that business, I could fit in that group. I can help. And so, think of your role. This was the advice that gives the other folks think of your role as how you can help. And, you know, rather than, you know, the X’s and O’s, I can, I can write so much code. I could, you know, I can jump so high. I can, you know, yada, yada, yada. Now it’s how much, how much you can help. And, and you’re looking for those kinds of opportunities.

JEFF JOHNSON: Yeah, I think that’s very good, Phil. You’re such a clear thinker. I mean, your perspective on what you went through has got to be so valuable for everybody that you coach and everybody that you consult with going forward. Um, what would you say to somebody who’s facing the same thing? I mean, you just said it right there. But how would you coach and encourage somebody? Would it be just that? Think about where you can help.

PHIL SEUSS: The, the, the thing that Hayden Fry brought to my attention was is that you got it, you got to see yourself as a big 10 quarterback. You could be, you could be a great athlete, you could run fast and jump high and, you know, run people over and everything like that. You have to project yourself into the role that you want to be in. And you have to see yourself, you have to see yourself doing that. I, I, I, now as an older person now, I’m still working. I think my role is more about mentoring and, um, and I don’t say things like, well, you got to get your mind in the right. You got to get in your right frame by mind. That’s like, that’s worthless. But you got, you got to see yourself doing the thing. Right. You got to, you got to see yourself. If it’s athletics, you got to see yourself running like the wind and throwing the ball a mile and making the difficult catch. But most of us aren’t athletes like that. We’re all in business or some types of business. You’re going to be able to see yourself doing that role. And well, what is that, you know, do you know enough about the role, right, that you’re applying for. Okay. And, uh, you know, taking yourself out of this role that I’m leaning this job for whatever reason. And you have to project yourself into this other role. Well, you don’t know what this other role is. How can you be helpful? How can you convince someone that you’re a value? And, uh, so my point is, you know, mentally seeing yourself as the, as, you know, for me, I was a CFO, COO and, and president, you know, working, working with groups of people and helping, helping identify, you know, let’s, let’s get, let’s focus here. Let’s get on to the thing that’s going to help us go to the next step. So to speak. Well, what’s the next step? Well, you got to put that in words. And you got to put that in words in your brain. And then, you know, once you figure out those words in your brain, then your body and mind and actions and speech can model there.

JEFF JOHNSON: We always say that on the, we’re bringing it back to golf again, Phil. I always tell my kids the last thing you think about before you hit that ball is what’s going to happen. You got to visualize yourself hitting it right down the, you know, you’re talking about the same thing.

PHIL SEUSS: Yeah.

JEFF JOHNSON: It’s, it’s very good, Phil. Um, do you think last question, then I’ll let you go. I promise. Do you think we’re living in a world where, uh, courage is lacking or is it at a premium? And why? See, I stumped you.

PHIL SEUSS: I don’t think it’s, I don’t think so. I’m answering the question in the negative. I don’t think it’s a premium. I do think it’s okay. So here’s another negative. I think it is lacking. Um, why do I say that? I think, uh, I think it’s, I think it’s easy to complain. I think it’s, I think it’s incredibly easy to complain. And, um, and, and I’ve said this in other venues. It’s kind of like the national pastime.

JEFF JOHNSON: Yeah.

PHIL SEUSS: But, you know, at, at some point, someone’s has to say, so this is where the courage comes in courage slash leadership. Hey, I got a better idea. Let’s work on this. And, uh, you know, instead of, you know, the villain, it’s pointed, you know, so and so. There, there are the ones that are responsible for your, for your, um, lot in life, so to speak. And it’s like, oh, you made, you are where you are because you’ve chosen to be there. And, you know, you’ve made conscious decisions along the way to, you know, I’m going to get this job and I’m, I’m going to, um, make it married this way. And I’ve got it, things can only go this way. So, you know, we are where we are because we’ve chosen to be there. And, um, so if it’s, if the, if the motivation comes from within. To, you know, put yourself in a particular position, the motivation also can be, hey, I can change this too. So you got it, you got to get on the other side of the argument there and say, you know, I want to bring about change. I want to bring about positive change. And, you know, well, what is that thing? You know, what is that? You know, whether it’s, um, running the Fed, right? Or running the gas station down the, at the end of the street or I’m in the warehousing business, you know, running, running that, running that facility and taking care of customers, you know, taking care of customer needs. And, um, as our, let’s say, you know, as our, as our, are we lacking or I still, I got to stay away from the negative side. I don’t think we’re lacking. We’re, we need to challenge ourselves.

JEFF JOHNSON: Perfect. That’s perfect, Phil. And, per your definition, doing something that’s uncomfortable. You know, people are pursuing their comfort all the time. So you be the one that doesn’t complain. You be the one that stares discomfort in the face and pushes right past it. And then you be the unique one that’s demonstrating courage and watch that be contagious and get all over the rest of your teammates. See, you should, you should definitely be in a positional leadership. Phil, I see exactly why God has put you, where he’s put you. So Phil, Zeus, uh, dear friend of mine, man of great courage. Thank you so much for being on the show today, Phil.

PHIL SEUSS: Hey, great chef. Thank you very much. had a lot of fun. It’s been great. We’ll do it again on the golf course for sure. Helping out.

ANNOUNCER: Thank you for joining us today on courageous. If you’d like to hear more about the work and ministry being done at Crossroads Apologetics, please visit our home on the web at crossroadsapologetics.org. Would you or someone you know like to be featured on courageous, send us an email at info at crossroadsapologetics.com or info at crossroadsapologetics.org, telling us about the most courageous thing you’ve ever done.