From F-4 Phantoms to Faith: Craig Applefield’s Unbelievable Story of Courage

In this episode, Craig Applefield reflects on a life shaped by service, discipline, failure, faith, and redemption. A former Navy F-4 Phantom pilot and Vietnam veteran who flew roughly 300 missions, Craig shares lessons from combat, leadership, business, and family before offering a surprising answer to the question of the most courageous thing he has ever done: living 69 years
without the Lord. After decades as a successful but controlling businessman, Craig’s life changed during a mission trip to Mozambique, where an encounter with poverty, humility, and sacrificial kindness opened the door to faith. Today, Craig is a devoted husband, father, Christian, mentor, and servant-leader whose story points to courage as grit, moral strength, trust in God, and the willingness to keep serving others with grace and purpose.

Thank you for listening! We hope you feel inspired and encouraged by our conversation today. If you did, be sure to share this episode with others.

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See you in the next episode! Be blessed!

Full Transcript

Announcer: Welcome to Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics, a look into what motivates us to step out and courage, and the everyday bravery of men and women like you. In each episode, we hear a personal story of bravery centered around this question. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And now your host, founder of Crossroads Apologetics, Jeff Johnson.

Jeff Johnson: Hey everybody, this is Jeff. Welcome back to another edition of the Courageous Crossroads podcast. Just walk away. Just shut your radio off, just shut your computer off, iPhone, whatever you’re listening to this on. Put an audiobook on instead, something unless you really want to hear a powerful story about courage. Because my next guest, Craig Applefield, is a friend of mine who, well, I’m going to let you hear from Craig. He’s got a wonderful story of courage, as have all of my guests. You know, we’ve just had such a rich cross-section of people here telling their story and answering that question. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And Craig is going to give you another unbelievable answer. We start off this podcast talking about his flight experience. He is a Navy pilot and he did a few tours in Vietnam, quite a few missions, and it kind of starts there. And then it gets really interesting and really impactful from that. So without further ado, here’s Craig, Applefield.

Craig Applefield: You know, we lived in Texas. We lived in a senior retirement golf course community. And there were distinctly two types of people. There were elderly people, 55 and older, that were just planted there and they were waiting. And then you had about 50% of the people that every day they had a purpose. They had things on their calendar, they were involved with things. And they had a reason to get up every day, they had a reason to get through a week. But they did so much better. But they were the ones that often commented too. Boy, time’s going quick. The ones that were just waiting to die. Not so much. How much can you keep me, can you watch? And they would be funny. They talk about the fact that they just got a new book. And they’re 10, 15 pages into it and they realized I already read it. So anyway, you know, it’s a different type of person. But, you know, I think it’s really critical for elderly people. If you’re physically and mentally able, you know, have a purpose.

Jeff Johnson: I have one, we’re going to get started with the interview proper here in just a second. But I was visiting with my dad this morning and I told him I was going to be talking to a Navy pilot and a Vietnam veteran. And he said, what kind of plane did he fly? Because my dad flew for the Marine Corps, as I mentioned to you. And so he was curious, what kind of airplanes you flew. So what kind of, what should I tell him?

Craig Applefield: I flew the F4 Phantom. McDonald Douglas built it. We had two big J79 engines with afterburner. Two member crew pilot in front, radar intercept officer, another set of eyeballs in air, air combat that was very helpful. It was built as actually an interceptor, not a fighter. And because of the Vietnam and the demographics and how the war was being waged over there, we had to kind of adapt the F4 to the environment. So she became a fighter. We also delivered iron bombs. But again, primarily she was designed for long range intercept, you know, Russian bears, Russian badgers, those kinds of adversaries that we would hopefully intercept hundreds of miles, you know, away from the United States or a task force. But we adapted her. She was a very powerful airplane and two engines. And the MiGs, the 17s and the 19s, they fought horizontally. They had guns in their aircraft. We could not carry a gun in the F4. It affected our angle of attack coming back aboard to carriers. They really waited down the nose. So we were limited to a rear type of an attack with a heat-seating, seeking missile. So we ended up fighting vertically and they ended up fighting horizontally. So ideally, you know, what we would try to do is draw them up. And when they started to run out of energy, you know, we’d slew the plane back over and then, you know, start trying to work our way to the rear quarter of the MiGs. But they weren’t that, the North Vietnamese were really not that good, their pilots. You pretty much knew everyone so well when you made a few turns with somebody. If it was Chinese pilot, that was flying, you know, for the North Vietnamese. They were better.

Jeff Johnson: Oh, yeah.

Craig Applefield: Oh, yeah.

Jeff Johnson: What was the reason for that?

Craig Applefield: Just training experience. I think, you know, just the nature of their military, how they trained their people. And just like America, you know, by the time you get into a combat environment, you know, you’re so well trained. Everything is instinctive. And if you don’t have that level of training and if you don’t have enough hours doing those types of training, you know, when you start thinking that takes time. And you don’t have a lot of time in an air engagement. But, you know, she was a great bird. She only cost four million dollars. Full avionics, you know, fully loaded other than ordinance. If you broker, I mean, theoretically, you could pay for her in your lifetime. You know, today, $15, $35 million. That’s a challenge.

Jeff Johnson: Did you have the same plane for your entire experience?

Craig Applefield: No. You know, fighter squadron and a Navy consistent of at that time, 13 aircraft. And every day you had your flight schedule. And just dependent on what birds were brought up from the hangar deck. And we’re now on the flight deck. You know, what birds were loaded with the appropriate. So you’d rotate in and out different aircraft.

Jeff Johnson: Damn.

Craig Applefield: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: Well, they’re right.

Craig Applefield: No. I, uh, not enough that it would affect you. I mean, there might be a little bit of a, this one’s a little more sluggish. Maybe, uh, I think many, most of the time it might have been mental. But no, you could hop in any model of the F. We flew the J model. All 13 birds were J’s. And you could hop in any plane. And it was like, like you drive and driving your car. If you had 13 of exactly the same cars in your driveway, there was no significant difference.

Jeff Johnson: And how many, and how many missions did you fly?

Craig Applefield: You know, I did about 300.

Jeff Johnson: That sounds like a lot to me.

Craig Applefield: Well, two two or two lot. Well, we had two tours.

Jeff Johnson: Okay.

Craig Applefield: The first tour was supposed to be nine months. It turned out to be 11. So we had a couple more months flying. Sometimes once or twice a day. Uh, you know, we break up the tour. Sometimes, you know, few days of liberty and a port. But it didn’t take you long to a mass. You know, 125, 150 flights on a tour. Yeah, some off days where you didn’t fly. But, you know, depending on the targets, depending on what was required of us. Once we went feet dry. Uh, you know, there were plenty of missions to fly. So you flew in a 12 hour period. We always had two carriers on Yankee station. Somebody went noon to midnight and the other one went midnight to noon. So you always had possibilities to fly in the dark part of the time and part of the time in the light. You just never knew. But again, it was not difficult to get those numbers of missions and those numbers of cat shots and arrestments on the boat. You know, the only problem we had in my second tour was 10 and a half months. But the only problem we had was after a while, you know, the cat shots and the arrestments. They took the aircraft took a beating. But the landings under decks of the carriers with the wire. They were pretty much controlled crashes. I mean, you’re not dealing with 11, 10,000 foot runway and you’re just kind of greasing it in. I mean, you’re plunking that bird down at a pretty good airspeed and, you know, you’re catching a wire, which I mean, it really jolt you. So by the end of the cruise, you know, sometimes we were down to maybe, you know, 10, 9, really functional aircraft. And the latter part of the cruise, we were cannibalizing parts from, you know, two or three birds that were stuck down the hangar deck. So, you know, it’s a taking the aircraft on the carriers take a beating.

Jeff Johnson: Did you always feel safe in the F4? I mean, from a functional maintenance standpoint of the aircraft itself.

Craig Applefield: Oh, you know, the maintenance people were amazing. You know, there was two distinct communities. You had your officers in the squadron. Most of them were pilots and flight crew. And then you had your enlisted people. And that was an air win. And that was a great experience. And we had a lot of people from ship company. So we had nothing to do with the carrier or the boat. We were simply the flight operations part of the carrier. We had our own maintenance department. We had our own maintenance people. You know, you talk about the importance of relationships in life. Those kids that were working on the boat on the planes. And it was critical that when we came back to the boat, if you had the time that you could occasionally spend some time with some of those young guys and share with them. What the mission was, what we accomplished, how the airplane worked, how blessed we were that they took such good care of the airplane, the engines, the hydraulics, the weapons systems, particularly the ejection seat. But you know, it was a critical part of spending nine or 10 months functioning as a team was communications and relationships. And you know, that was something you didn’t really learn a whole lot when you were on the beach in training. Because you were constantly evolving and moving in your training process. But once you got to a squadron and I was critical. Tell you a funny story. You know, pilots generally have a collateral air wing air, air crew have collateral duties. So when you’re not flying, you still have some responsibilities within the squadron. I had a department in the maintenance department called the check crew. And we would take one of the 13 birds. My guys did. They bring it down to Hangard deck. Take off a lot of the panels. Check all the couplings, all the fittings. Make sure there was no leakage. Checked all the integrity of all the connections. Put the panels back on and did corrosion control on airplane took two, three days. The job in that arena was when they were done. I was the first one to take that bird up and fly it after they had taken it apart basically.

Jeff Johnson: It was very typical job your unique job. Yeah.

Craig Applefield: Very typical that no sooner did you get airborne. You see some warning lights. You see some buzzers going off. And you know, you devaluated it and it bring the bird back. So after, oh, I don’t know. A significant number of these. I got the idea that when we came back from the first crew, my chief petty officer that ran the check crew. I was going to get him flight qualified. Not to fly the bird, but he could sit in the back seat. So after the bird was done with the maintenance process, I took him up with me. I was never warning, never a buzzer. So you know, you talk about vesting right? Somebody’s vested in something. But I always thought that was kind of funny. It never happens when you wanted to happen to show them. Well, you know, I guess that’s just a little bit extra layer of, you know, it’s my butt. And he was a great guy. I mean, he was really good. But it was funny. I had asked him many times, you know, explain to me how that happened.

Jeff Johnson: Okay. Wow. And you know, all I could say is, you know, well, Lieutenant, you know, what was the longest flight you ever took in the F4, not necessarily a mission. But how long what was the longest time you were in that seat?

Craig Applefield: Twice at ferry to F4s, once from San Diego to the Philippines. So we were airborne the whole time. It was about 11 to 12 hours.

Jeff Johnson: Oh, wow.

Craig Applefield: We, since we got airborne, we got a hundred or so miles off the West Coast. We hooked up with a tanker. You know, we air refueled. When we got within a hundred or so miles of Hawaii, we had a tanker to rendezvous with. Then, you know, we’d proceed across the Western Pacific, Western Pacific, somewhere out of Guam or Okinawa. They’d launch a Navy tanker, rendezvous, top off, and then coming into the Philippines again, out of 100 or so miles out. We needed some fuel. You’d refuel again. I guess the funniest part of that is, you know, you’d prepare your body for that kind of a flight. So you didn’t do a lot of drinking, you know, for a day or two beforehand, try to get your bladder. Take that kind of a flight, not after pee. But I tell you, you know, soon you got over the ocean. You look down at all that water. And I was like, oh, you got to be kidding me. And then I did about a nine hour flight. We took a brand new F4. There were three or four of us. I mean, not just one airplane, but we take three or four at a time. And we took one over to the Shaw in Iran. And back in the early days, we spent a couple days there. What a beautiful country.

Jeff Johnson: Oh, really?

Craig Applefield: Oh, my gosh. You know, it wasn’t controlled by the Moolas. It wasn’t controlled by religious fanatics. It was very westernized. People were happy music, good food. You know, it just obviously has evolved to where it is today. But those are pretty long flights in a small airplane.

Jeff Johnson: Wow. And still too crew yet somebody with you when you did that.

Craig Applefield: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Jeff Johnson: Wow. You listen to the radio. No. There was no questions from a non military.

Craig Applefield: Yeah, there was there was no Wi-Fi. No, we’d visit. We talk. You know, the guy in the back would get on the radar. You know, he’s looking for other aircraft in the area. You know, there were, if you had a problem, you know, he was developing an issue with the engines or whatever. You know, you could have landed in Hawaii. Could have taken the bird in Okinawa or Guam. But as long as she was functioning great, you know, it just meant a lot of time. Getting the bird on the ground, whatever the maintenance issues would be refueling, refiling a flight plan. You know, the preference was once you’re on board and going, it’s like flying from Atlanta down to Johannesburg. You know, which bear board you don’t want to stop.

Jeff Johnson: Right. Just get this thing over with, you know. It’s 17 hours that flight from Atlanta to Johannesburg. And now we said, how do you do it? Well, it takes off and you’re in the seat. And then you just deal with it because they’re not going to land until they can do it. Yeah, do you take that Delta flight?

Craig Applefield: Yeah. It’s a nice flight. It’s a nice option. I’ve done a couple other options, but I still think that Delta flight, if you can get it. And oh, it’s probably the best way, in my opinion.

Jeff Johnson: It’s like you said, once you’re on the bird, let’s get there.

Craig Applefield: It just gets it done.

Jeff Johnson: Well, for the folks that are listening, I’m speaking with Craig Applefield today. And I had the opportunity to meet him several months ago. And we’re both involved with the same charitable organization, change course here in Des Moines. And Craig has involved at a much more intimate level than I am. But we’ve met a few times and become friends. And I was so fascinated with your story. And I really wanted you to come on the program. And I’m so grateful that you’ve given up some of your time here, Craig. So we’re going to talk about the topic of courage. And I’m going to come down to the question, what’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And we’ll see how you answer that question. I mean, already the stuff that you’ve mentioned, Craig, is over the time. I mean, how do I ask this guy about courage? Oh, my goodness. Your experiences in Vietnam would more than cover that anyway. But I’m curious to get to know you a little bit. Where were you born and raised?

Craig Applefield: I was born and raised in a town called Montclair, New Jersey. It was a bedroom community for New York City. We were about 12 miles from the George Washington bridge. Most of the dads commuted over to New York City and worked in the city in Manhattan. When I graduated from high school, I went to a college in Western Pennsylvania. It was called Westminster College, four-year liberal arts school. I graduated with a history major, education minor. I always thought I would coach at a high school or college level and teach. But to Vietnam, conflict had started and I had fraternity brothers and friends that were athletes with me that were involved at join the military. So after graduation, I made that decision to go in the military. And that took me into naval aviation.

Jeff Johnson: Interesting. Okay. Backing up one little step. So obviously you’d be teaching history. I would imagine, but coaching what?

Craig Applefield: Football, basketball, baseball, football and baseball were my two primary sports. In my five, ten, I didn’t have a lot of experience with basketball.

Jeff Johnson: You weren’t dribbling between your legs and making that shot from outside the three point.

Craig Applefield: No. And if I tried it, I’d stuffed.

Jeff Johnson: Did you do something? Did you play collegially? Did you play sports at Westminster?

Craig Applefield: I did.

Jeff Johnson: Okay. What position were you?

Craig Applefield: Well, I played third base in baseball and football. I was kind of a second string back up, quarterback. Small, not particularly fast, but I could throw. So, you know, I got limited amount of play time, but you know, I was with the guys and learned all the things that sports teach at a young age, you know, about preparation, disability. I was with the team work and those concepts. And I think those, those follow you to rest of your life. So, yeah. I was blessed when I got out of the service in San Diego that I had an opportunity to coach for a number of years at a Christian high school. Both those sports.

Jeff Johnson: Oh, wonderful. So about your military service then. I was born in 1967. So, of course, you know, I, I’ve got no recollection of the times. But I would imagine there was a, there was a sense of loyalty, a sense of love of country that would draw you into the military during that period. Or was it brotherhood because you mentioned you saw your friends doing it. Or did you have experience in your family with people that were in the military? And you said, yeah, I’m going to do that. Because a lot of people didn’t.

Craig Applefield: Well, I think it was a combination of some things. My dad was a bombardier in World War II. And, you know, he didn’t talk a lot about it, but I knew he had served and he had experienced combat. And so there was a little piece of that in me. I think most of it was about the relationships I had with my most intimate friends, the guys that I went to school with the choves to go in the military. And I’ve always believed in this concept of not me than who. So from the time I was in high school, I guess, that was something that was ingrained in me. That, you know, if I wasn’t willing to do it, why would I think other people should do something that I wasn’t willing to do. So I think I was mainly motivated by that. So, you know, the second semester of my senior year, and it was true every year, all the recruiters would come to campus. And you’d have an opportunity to visit with them. And then I ended up picking the Navy flight program was after visiting with a variety of these recruiters. That in itself is a funny story, by the way. I don’t know if we talked about that.

Jeff Johnson: Tell it, tell it.

Craig Applefield: Well, the last guy I met was the Navy recruiter. He was a pilot. So when I walked over, he asked me, he said, son, he said, I have two questions to ask you to see if it’s worth you and I investing some time. So he said, the first question is, have you visited with the other recruiters? I said, yes, sir, I’ve been with every one of them. So he said, okay, the second question is really critical. Do you like girls? And he pointed to his white uniform and the gold wings and he had a few ribbons. And he said, chick magnet. So, you know, it was pretty quick decision after that. But funny part was I called my dad that night and I said, dad, you know, you don’t have to worry about when I graduate, you know, maybe being employed or being independent self sufficient. I signed up to go fly in the Navy. And he said, how did that happen? And he told him the story and he was livid that he had spent four years of tuition and spending money. Well, not that I didn’t go into military, but that my decision making process was based on to you like girls. And it hoped maybe for a little bit more maturation over four years of college. But he was fine. But it was kind, it was kind, it was cute. It was funny.

Jeff Johnson: Well, I think I’m going to jump right in with you in just a second Craig and ask you the big question. And then we’ll see where we’ll see where that leads us. But before I do that, I am curious about you said your dad served in World War Two and he didn’t talk a lot about it. If you don’t mind me saying, I have noticed a lot of father sons, fathers and their children, people that have military service in World War Two and Vietnam and things like that, where there’s not a whole lot that’s spoken. But then me as an objective observer from the outside can come in with people like that and ask them questions. And I see a whole door open up, you know, where people will talk about their military service and things that they experience. I’ve had that happen to me a couple of times. Is that a gosh Craig, I even feel like I’m on sensitive ground and now I’m kind of wishing I wouldn’t open this Pandora’s box. But I guess I’m in it. So I’ll follow through. Is that something that you experience that you want to protect your children from? Is that why there’s not so much spoken? I mean, do you have a better appreciation now as a veteran of the Vietnam conflict yourself of why your dad didn’t speak to you very much about what he experienced in World War Two. Is that a fair question?

Craig Applefield: Yeah, I think it’s a very fair question. You know, I can just work off my perception. But I don’t think average Americans understand the horror of war. And does make a difference what your involvement is when you’re in a combat war environment. It’s horrifying. It’s scary. We never came home with everybody we left with. And when you see that, and you have that exposure and you see the price that some are making. And you’re blessed that you survive and you come home. You know, it’s almost. I don’t feel like I have the same value or worth to share as the guys that sacrifice to that degree or came home with less limbs or psychological problems. It’s not what you see on TV. It’s not glorifying, you know, to someone that participates in that environment. You know, TV portrays it many times as this wonderful, amazing experience, the victorious person, you know, you charge machine gun positions. It’s the whole spectrum of feelings and emotions. And I think you kind of protect those. I think there’s a part where it’s like, you know, if I explained to you like we did earlier what my experience was in Turkey, you can only relate to a certain amount of that. Because there’s a certain element of it. Unless you go to Turkey. It’s not going to affect you. The way it affected me, having been in Turkey. And I think you also realize that, you know, there’s people you can share stories with and experiences that you’ve had in combat. But there’s a whole layer that they can’t relate to, you know, when you’re sharing that story. It’s almost a little bit like superficial or frosting on a cake. But for me, that was a big part of it. You know, I, I think it’s a lot like, you know, people who serve. You can go on a mission trip. You can go serve a community. Third world, people who really have a need, the underserved. And you can come and share that with other people. It’s only going to have a certain impact on those people. When they go and they do it, the impact is much greater. So I think, you know, there’s, there’s a little bit of a chasm between sharing that type of an experience. And then I also think you’re maybe a little cautious about what would be my expectation of their response. Okay, you might expect more than you might get back. And some people, you know, might not even appreciate it. The fact that you went into that environment and defensive your country. So, you know, there’s a number of factors. I actually wish my boys had gone into the military. I think that, you know, it’s just, I love Israel and the fact that they have mandatory service. And when we’ve been to Israel and you talk to the young IDF kids. And they’re right out of high school, three years for the boys, two years for the young ladies. Boy, they mature. They develop a love of country. And you can see it when you talk to about Israel, when you talk to them about their service. They radiate. And I think even in America today, we could, we could find value in that. And obviously there’s other opportunities for people that may not want to go military. But I think just the concept of serving as critical.

Jeff Johnson: Well, thank you very much for sharing that Craig that that enlightens quite a bit of that. And felt like that was a sensitive question. And I really appreciate you sharing about that. I assume you had different language with your dad then when you got home from the service. Or maybe that maybe it was just an understanding that you didn’t need to speak out loud.

Craig Applefield: Yeah, with my dad, my dad and I didn’t talk about it a great deal. You know, two different seasons. World War II was an entirely different environment than Vietnam was. We didn’t live close to each other when I got out of state in San Diego. They were in either New Jersey or Arizona where they retired. We actually talked about other things, you know, more about transitioning into the business world, transitioning into non military environment. And there were relationships with those grandkids and that kind of thing. So now it wasn’t a major source of conversation between my dad and I military military experience.

Jeff Johnson: Well, let’s let’s let’s tread into the topic of courage here. And just a couple questions on on that particular word. And then I’ll ask you the big question. How do you define courage? Craig, what does courage mean to you?

Craig Applefield: Well, it’s a great question because I think, first of all, you know, it’s going to differ from person to person based on their their walk their experience. But, you know, for me, my dad taught me a couple things. One of them was never quit. I went through officer candidate school. There was a certain attrition where not everybody made it through officer candidate school down a fence call. Going through flight school. There was a certain attrition not everybody made it through. You know, you started flying instrument flying or you started doing car qualms. Scary stuff. Okay. And you know, you had to have you had to fight yourself a little bit and say, okay, you know, my up for the task. I’m not strong enough to have the moral fiber and the physical and mental ability to do what’s going to be required of me. And, you know, I think I started to develop an attitude about quitting and you watch people quit. And the more they would quit, the more it became a habit. And I didn’t want in my life quitting to be a habit for me or for my boys that my kids that I ultimately raised. So I think first of all, courage is when you have obstacles, challenges, difficulties, things that appear difficult to earn front of you. You know, do you have the moral strength and the the grit now, you know, my story about coming to the faith, but you have the faith to rely that, you know, God didn’t put you in the situation. If he didn’t think you could handle it.

Jeff Johnson: That’s a great definition Craig. What what people represent courage to you, either historical figures or people in your family or contemporaries.

Craig Applefield: Yeah, people that represent that. You know, I, I have been so blessed in my life that the people that God has put in front of me or alongside of me. Great mentors, you know, great examples of service and courage and commitment and dedication and, you know, later on in life, I understood, you know, their, their faith. I’d say, you know, starting in high school coaches, college coaches, one of the most impactful guys I ever met actually was my drill instructor down in Pensacola, Florida, going through officer candidate school. He had been to Vietnam had been shot, had been wounded, came back and now had a stint at Pensacola as the drill instructor. And, you know, watching him walk the talk was an amazing example of courage and everything that encompasses courage, not quitting. And not only quitting on himself, but he never quit on any of the guys. We were the only class that everybody that entered all 26 of us graduated and became officers.

Jeff Johnson: Pardon me, the only class

Craig Applefield: only class that year.

Jeff Johnson: Oh wow, that everyone that started graduated.

Craig Applefield: And he was an incredible mixture of humor, example, physical strength, mental strength, emotional strength. I mean, I saw him do things to help guys complete that program that, you know, you looked at and you thought, how could a human being do that? You know, climb a rope with one hand while he’s got a guy underneath his arm with another, you know, but he was, he was very impactful when it came to a leader in the military. And he was a non commissioned officer. He wasn’t an officer. I had two skippers, one of my first tour and one of my second tour. The contrast between the first skipper and the second skipper was like night and day. First skipper, good pilot, you know, obviously decent officer. He wouldn’t have reached the rank that he did and get the responsibility he did. But I wouldn’t say he was a great leader. You know, the second CEO, man, you talk about I’ll follow you anywhere. Okay, because again, you walk the talk. He took the toughest missions. He took the toughest flights. And you just knew this was a man that if you had a problem, you were at courage. He would be right there with you. So he was very impactful, you know, the year and a half that I spent with him. When I came out of the service and went into the business world, I was given a mentor in the business community. And he spent a year with me. I had no idea how to start a business, run a business. I was in the insurance world and I couldn’t even spell insurance. I thought it started with an E. And, you know, he taught me things and, you know, when I’d fall down and go boom, he’d pick me up. And I often think of him when I think about that picture of the two footprints in the sand, the two sets of footprints, and then it becomes one. And that man would pick me up and carry me sometimes when I was thinking I’m not cut out for this. I’m going back in the military, you know. But, you know, I’ve had a pastor. I’ve had one particular pastor down in Texas in my life that, you know, he’s just exemplified what it was to be a critic. What it was to be a Christian man. And he fed into me. You know, it was a late entry into my belief in Christ.

Jeff Johnson: Okay, well, let’s hear it Craig Applefield. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done?

Craig Applefield: You know, you shared that that was going to be a question. And I spent a lot of time processing that. And, you know, I came to the Lord at 69 prior to that. I was quite a controlling personality. I’ve been brought up that way. My life experiences led me to be a good. Well, I took responsibility for it, but, you know, it opened the door for me to control. And in my business world, man, I was all for profit. We had to cut a corner. We’d cut a corner. If we had to take advantage of the gray, we’d take advantage of the gray. And I built my staff around that. And when I came to the Lord at 69, it was like, wow, when they talk about being reborn, you know, all the heaviness of not making the best decisions, not making the wisest decisions, not necessarily saying the best example for my three boys, my employees, damage I had done to other people.

Craig Applefield: And this is hard for me to share now, but the reality was I was not particularly healthy, good person. That changed my life forever. And when I, when I’m asked about what’s the most courageous thing I did, my answer is I didn’t even realize it. But it was to spend 69 years of my life without the Lord in it. My life has changed so much in the last 11, 12 years, where I don’t feel like I have to have control of everything. You know, I appreciate the gifts that are given to me. I’ve had to go back and mend fences and, you know, I’ve developed a beautiful understanding of grace and mercy. And when it was extended to me at that late age, you know, how could I not extend it to others? And, you know, it led my wife and I to in the last 11, 12 years to aggressively serving the underserved in multiple, in multiple areas and multiple ways. But I think when I look back at my life, I think my gosh, how did I get through all of that? And I didn’t have the Lord with me. He wasn’t in my heart. He wasn’t in my mind. He wasn’t sitting in the ejection seat with me, you know. I mean, I could spend days talking about all the things I did that I regret today that I did. And somehow, you know, he allowed me to continue to have a life. And I pray that the purpose wasn’t for me to learn from those experiences and now use those experiences to help others. But again, I look back and I think, how did I ever survive? If it wasn’t for the grace and the mercy of the Lord. Not even knowing it, you know, it was, it was the most courageous thing in my life, those 69 years.

Jeff Johnson: What an amazing answer, Craig, because I really love that. And I’ve told people over and over again that are not Christians. How do you make sense of the world? How do you understand anything and more to your point, you’re left to the wolves. If you don’t have a date, if you don’t have a protector, if you don’t have some kind of anchor, some root system. So what a poignant answer. The most courageous thing is going without God for 69 years of your life. What was the, what was the catalyst? What was the thing that led you to him? We have some time.

Craig Applefield: Well, I lost a marriage, you know, in my, my early years and it was devastating on my family and devastating on relationships and friends. But I ended up meeting an Iowa girl from Shenandoah. She was born and raised in a Baptist family. Went to church, went to Sunday school, went to Christian camps. And here she ended up meeting and marrying this heathen. And for, you know, almost 20 years, I played golf on Sunday morning and my wife went to church. And I would occasionally go to church if the weather was so bad that I couldn’t play golf. But we’d go out and have breakfast afterwards and I’d tell her all the things I didn’t like about the church. The people are too young, music’s too contemporary. What’s this deal about clapping and church or raising your hand in church? What is that about? So Sunday afternoons and Sunday evenings were not the most pleasant in my home. And this went on for years. And I got so tired of hearing my wife talk to me about serving. You know, I felt I served my family, I served my employees, I served my clients. You know, why am I going to spend all this time, energy and resources and serving people? I don’t know that that makes sense to me from where I came from. So one day it was a unpleasant weather day down in Texas. We came out of church and my wife left me and walked over to talk to some ladies. And at the other end of the foyer, they were having a promotion for a variety of mission trips that the church honored and supported. So I asked some, and this is where God stepped at from this point on. This was all about God taking control of this man. I asked somebody over there, I said, where is the hardest trip, the most difficult trip, the most arduous trip that you have? And they said this little community of Mozambique called Shishai. And they explained to me, third world, no fresh water, no fresh food, hopeless people who lived and without any hope, average mortality was just about age 40, youth mortality, infant mortality was 70%. Just a police theory inviting.

Jeff Johnson: Oh, no travel brochures, right?

Craig Applefield: So I signed my wife and I up to go. Well, the good news is I was accepted. I had to lie on the application. I had no understanding of the Bible or scripture. In the classes that we had to take before we went, I had to excuse myself periodically because I had a business call. When it was my turn to answer something, I had to go to a restaurant. It was like somebody put the bill down at the table after dinner, right? People that just kind of run away.

Jeff Johnson: Because you’re doing this for nefarious purposes.

Craig Applefield: Well, yeah. And I was going to get to that point. So anyway, we go out and have breakfast that Sunday after church and I tell my wife, I signed you and I up to go on a mission trip to this remote area in Los Enbique, Africa. She’s a static. She thinks the Lord has impacted me. She thinks that I’ve come to become a believer. I want to grow in my faith. I’m thinking I want to take this pussy wife of mine somewhere that’s totally out of her comfort zone. And I want to be there when she falls down and goes boom. And then I’m going to have a conversation with her about service.

Jeff Johnson: I didn’t tell her that.

Craig Applefield: No, I did not share that with her. But anyway, went through the classes. It was a group of eight of us that we’re going to go. We were going to be led by a pastor. And we made a trip to San Diego a couple of weeks before the departure date and married Beth unfortunately developed a brain bleed and spent about a week in ICU and San Diego. When I got her back to Texas, obviously, the neurologist and neurosurgeons, they didn’t want her going out of country. They certainly didn’t want to her flying over water for 16 hours. And certainly if something happened over there, you know, the resources available to her were were nil. So she decided, obviously, and we decided together she would not go, but I’d go alone. I had been in the military had opportunities to see various parts of the world and never been to Africa. I would go over and have a safari go see the animals. Yeah, this mission trip thing. I it’s just a way to get over there. So I ended up going. And when we finally landed in the Puto, the capital of Mozambique, we had about a three and a half hour drive up to the campus. I had never seen such poverty. I had a plan, Cambodia, Laos Vietnam when I was overseas. You saw poor people, but they had food, they had resources, they had water. Certainly had a lot of rice, fish, chicken. And unless they were directly affected by the Viet Cong or the NVA, you know, these people were happy. Well, guess what? On that drive up, I didn’t see happy people. I had a project filled dirt poverty. And I kind of made a decision. I don’t know if I made the right one here coming on this just trip alone. Well, we arrived at the campus and they had a group of people there to meet us. And again, I’m kind of embarrassed about this, but they released the kids and the kids came running over and they jumped in our arms. They were dirty. They smelled. It’s not running out their nose. I was like a cat. You know, I was like, oh, you know, this is not comfortable for me. But anyway, finally got to where we were going to stay that night. And I came up with a plan. I came up with a story. I was going to see the pastor the next day and it’s like, you know what? I need to get back to California. I was back to Texas. California was where the business was. Texas was where we were living. I had my credit card. You know, take me back to Maputo. And I’ll catch a flight back home. Sorry. Well, got to the campus next morning. He was gone. So I couldn’t tell my story and I couldn’t get a ride back to Maputo.

Jeff Johnson: This guy’s working, right?

Craig Applefield: Right. So they assigned the couple guys that were on the trip to work with some of the local guys digging a trip. I think there were like six or seven of us in total, three or four local guys and two or three of us. And we had two shovels. So you’d hop in the hole. You’d shovel for five or ten minutes. Somebody’d hop in, take the shovel. And these local people, they’re talking in their native language. And they’re laughing and they’re having the best of time. And I think we’ve all been to places where you didn’t understand the joke or the joke didn’t make sense to you, but you laughed anyway. And here are a couple guys digging a trench with these folks and we’re laughing and we’re having the best time with these people. And we didn’t understand a word. Each other was saying. Well, at lunchtime, I went over and we served the young kids that were on the campus. And it was outside cooking, open fire, pot, local ladies were cooking a little bit of chicken and some rice and a local green. And we helped put the food on the plate with the kids. It was hot. I mean, it was well over a hundred degrees. There were maybe six or so kids standing in line in the heat, no pushing, no shoving, no inappropriate behavior. They got a plate, a paper plate and they got the smallest amount of protein. Maybe a, a, an ice cream scoop worth of rice and a little bit of green and they would go over and sit and eat. This little girl, she couldn’t have been more than four or five years old when over and got her food. As she’s walking over to join others, she dropped her food. Some of the kids got up. They picked up her food, picked up her dirty plate through it in the garbage. And I thought they’re going to take her back in line and get her more food. What they did was they all got their plates and they all gave her some of their food. And they didn’t have enough food really to sustain a person their age. And I’ll tell you what, I don’t know what it was about that moment of time. But it hit me like a bulldozer. And that evening at dinner, I pulled the pastor aside, our full-time pastor and the one that was leading the mission trip. And I told him my story. And they invested over the next 12 days. Every night, they spent hours with me after everybody else went to bed and poured in to me. Came home, got baptized. My wife and I got baptized together at the church. And about three or four weeks later, I did a testimony. It was videoed for the church. That was the first time my wife heard what my initial intent was. It take her over to Africa on this mission trip. Good news, bad news when we got home. But, you know, I, you don’t just flip a switch and become a believer. It’s a process. And I made the commitment. But again, God put two men in my life that lived in our community. And they walked with me and they invested time in me. They were Christian men. And over the course of a year or so, I really started to get an understanding of what it was meant. When you talk about a Christian man, not a Christian male, but a Christian man. My wife and I had many, many discussions. And we talked about the gifts that we had been given. We had not necessarily acknowledged all those gifts and appreciated them. But we made the decision at that point that whatever time we had left, we were going to again serve other people, God’s children that were underprivileged and underserved. Interesting sidebar to this. I was home for a week or so and I went back to California to the business. And we had a staff meeting. And I shared with everybody in the staff my story. And I acknowledged the fact that our business model in the past was pure profit. And we would do whatever we needed to do, you know, with certain limitations to be profitable. And I told them, moving forward, every transaction we have in this business with people. We’re going to do those transactions as if the Lord is sitting at that conference table with us or across that desk from that business owner or that HR person. I told him, I, if that was not comfortable for them, I didn’t know their faith. I would continue to pay them for the balance of six months, full salary. They didn’t have to come in. They could use it for job search. I pay to get a headhunter if they needed a headhunter. But it was their call whether they wanted to continue or not continue. Everybody stayed. The business exploded. Absolutely exploded. You know, all I could think of was my gosh, I wish I had done this when I was like 26, 27 years old. You know, when you’re not a great person and you’re a heathen and you’re constantly worried about who’s calling, who’s at the door. What’s the next phone call going to bring to me? You know, when you’re reborn again and all that junk is removed from you. Boy, you feel light. You know, they talk about light and salt and how it enhances your life, you know. Oh my gosh. I mean, my wife sent that video to our three boys. Actually, she had a son four boys at that time. Within an hour, those boys called Mary Beth and asked, is dad dying? They could not wrap their arms around why I always would explain that age. So anyway, it was an interesting number of years. Rebuilding relationships, working with my boys, working with my employees. And honestly, you wouldn’t believe the number of clients I had to go to and apologize. You know, it wasn’t egregious, but it wasn’t necessarily the best that we could have done for them. But now, you know, we will. And again, the grace and the mercy that so many people shared was amazing.

Jeff Johnson: See, and that’s different than not to put such a fine point on it, but that’s so different than any of this prosperity gospel kind of stuff. All that is, that’s you aligning your will with God’s and starting to use it correctly. And then things just start happening. It’s just amazing. So you’re telling me when you were a successful businessman before that, because that’s exactly what you were playing golf on Sunday, you didn’t have it on your bingo card, that the thing that was going to bring you to the Lord is a little girl dropping a plate of food in Mozambique.

Craig Applefield: I had no idea I was going to go to Mozambique. I had no idea I was going to serve other people. I had no idea I was going to serve a church. You know, I loved the world that I had. I remember in my 60s telling my wife, you know, by all measures, I should be a successful content human being. I had a beautiful home, got cars. We’ve traveled. We’ve raised boys. We don’t have a debt. We’re healthy. I mean, but I was empty. I was empty. And I went, I didn’t get up in the morning with any vitality or invigorating thoughts about what am I going to do today? What is my purpose? I was just going through a routine. And I can’t tell you how many times I shared that with her. And she, I know later on after I gave my life to the Lord, she reminded me how many times she was worried about my mental state that, you know, I had gotten to the cell early age where everybody’s looking to retire and joy, life, travel, try their kids and their grandkids. And I had an empty tank. Yeah. So, you know, again, when I got out of that water, man, it was like getting a triple bypass. You know, all of a sudden, man, blood flowed. You know, the oxygen was good. You know, I think for me, the blessing over these 12 years has been, you know, I have somebody to talk to. About anything. You know, I can be in the car. I can be walking the dog. I can be in my office, home officer in the business. And if there’s anything that comes up that I need some guidance, some support, some insights, you know, I say, God, it’s me Craig. You know, can I run something by you? What do you think? I know. And, you know, sometimes if not a lot of times, I may not get the answer what I want to hear, but there’s a piece that comes over you. And it allows you to reevaluate whatever it is you’re dealing with. And I think it’s the gift that the guard gives you that he clears away the garbage, he clears away the junk. You know, if you read the Bible, if you follow scripture, you go to church, surround yourself with good Christian men. I’ve given you everything you need to make good decisions. You know, I’ve given you everything you need to navigate through challenges and difficulties. You just need to remind yourself. And what a blessing. I mean, that is my wife bought me a plaque a number of years ago, because again, I still struggle a little bit at times with control as a business guy. Okay. And what the plaque says is, God, it’s me Craig. Could you do me a favor and close your eyes for a few minutes? There’s something I need to take care of. And what I should do is get that sign remade and have say, God, it’s me Craig, could you close your eyes for a few minutes? There’s something I need to screw up. But it always reminds me when I look at it.

Jeff Johnson: Okay. Let’s get back to you. So you labeled the, you described the most courageous thing you’ve ever done has lived in 69 years without the Lord.

Craig Applefield: I think so.

Jeff Johnson: And so now, and I totally get that point, you know, because you’re painting a picture of danger and what was I doing without, you know, knowing him and being close to him. And Leonard Ravenhill, I think one of my favorite quotes from him says, a man with an experience of God is never at the mercy of a man with an argument. Because you just know what you know. So I’m curious Craig, is your courage now knowing the Lord and walking with the Lord different? What’s that like for you now? What does courage mean to you as you sit here today?

Craig Applefield: I think what it represents to me is I have, I have no worries. I have no fears. I am totally comfortable with the fact that God has my life planned out for me. And I made a choice earlier in life to ignore it. And now I do everything I can to stay in the word stay in prayer to continue to communicate with him because I know he’s already got it mapped out for me. He’s done my flight plan for me, so to speak. And I just have to play. I just have to participate. And I have to, you know, and my capacity to serve others, you know, share that message. But I have no fear going into uncomfortable places. I don’t fear dying. You know, I just, I just put it in the Lord’s hands. And I know, man, if he could care of me for 69 years when I was not a believer in him. I didn’t seek him. I never sought him out. Now that I do, you know, what a blessing. You know, how, how, how is he not going to take care of me now? You know, at the conclusion of my testimony and I’ve given it so many times now, I ended by sharing with people. I want you to remember three things. It’s never too late. I was 69. So if you’re sitting in the audience and you’re struggling about your commitment to the Lord, never too late. Don’t quit. They’ll give up. You’re never too old. 69 is pretty, pretty old age to come to the Lord. And most importantly, you know, you’re never too unlovable. There was nothing in my past life that was lovable. And if it was, it was artificial. Now I feel like again, God’s blessed me. He’s shown me grace. He’s shown me mercy. I know there’s a place for me someday with him. And I just pray that when I stand in front of him that, you know, he’s able to say to me, job well done. You know, my good and faithful servant. But I have no fears. I have no apprehensions. I mean, my wife sometimes it’s just shocked. I walk up to people. I don’t know if they’re in a crowd. It’s a star talking with them, you know, or they’re behind me at Starbucks. It’s just how can you do something like that? It’s scary. So now, not at all. There God’s children. I’m God’s children. We have we have a lot in common. And you know, maybe they’ll share something with me that’s impactful. I’ll share something with them. But I don’t go out and say hi or hello or engage him. You never know. You know, so anyway, I think it’s the lack of fear. I, you know, when I was overseas, when I was in the military, when I was running my business, there were elements of fear all the time, apprehension, anxiety. But I can’t think of anything right now. You know, if my wife got ill, if I got ill, if one of my kids struggled, you know, I’d be comfortable looking to the Lord and say, Lord, what is it? We’re meant to learn from this. You know, tell, tell me you have a purpose. What is it? But again, I don’t have any apprehensions or fears about anything in life today. None.

Jeff Johnson: So well put, Craig, the you reminded me of the verse in the book, first John says, perfect love casts out fear. And you know, if you, if you sit with that verse for a minute, you realize, you know, fear cannot coexist with the perfect love of God. So and you’re an absolute example of that. Craig, apple field, man of great courage. Thank you so much for sharing with us today.

Craig Applefield: It is my pleasure. I look forward to our time together. And I hope we can break bread sometime in the near future again. I always so value your thoughts and your perspectives. And I honor what you do as well. And thank you for your involvement with Change Course.

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