Amber Sommerfeld: Living Courageously in the Gifts of God

In this episode, Amber Sommerfeld shares her story of faith, family, spiritual growth, and courage, reflecting on her life as a wife, mother, ministry leader, and follower of Jesus who has learned to step out in obedience even when it feels uncomfortable. Amber, who lives in Ankeny with her husband, Todd, has spent many years raising their three children while also growing in her passion for Scripture, healing, deliverance, and helping people experience freedom in Christ.
Through honest stories about depression, the Holy Spirit, spiritual gifts, and moments when God called her to speak or act with boldness, Amber defines courage as living by faith, taking the next step even when fear is present, and being willing to obey God with humility, authenticity, and love.

Thank you for listening! We hope you feel inspired and encouraged by our conversation today. If you did, be sure to share this episode with others.

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See you in the next episode! Be blessed!

Full Transcript

Announcer: Welcome to Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics, a look into what motivates us to step out and courage, and the everyday bravery of men and women like you. In each episode, we hear a personal story of bravery centered around this question: What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And now your host, founder of Crossroads Apologetics, Jeff Johnson.

Jeff Johnson: Hey everybody, this is Jeff. Welcome back to another episode of the Courageous Crossroads Podcast. Glad to have you with us. And thanks so much for listening. I always get positive feedback from people. Amber, it’s wonderful to talk to you. We caught up with each other at the Iowa Prayer Breakfast. And we hadn’t seen each other for a little while. I’m a big fan of yours and your husband Todd, so it’s always good to see you. Can you give us a little background? Tell us a little bit about who you are and where you’re from and all of that kind of stuff to put you in context with our listeners.

Amber Summerfeld: Yeah, yeah, that’d be great. Yeah, and it was great to—I love running into everybody at the Iowa Prayer Breakfast. It’s always fun to see people—miss seeing Danielle there. So you have to give her a big hug for me. I miss her. Yeah, and yeah, my husband and I, we’ve been married—we’ll be married 28, we were counting, 28 years in December. So yes, we were babies. We were 21, 22 years old. And we got married. High school sweethearts. I grew up in—I grew up in Huxley. He was in Kelly. Yeah, we just kind of had our eyes on each other for a while and we dated each other’s different friends for a bit. And then finally got hooked on one another and the rest is history. And we live here in Ankeny now. He runs Craig Tool Company in Ankeny now. And I’ve taken full advantage of being a stay-at-home mom for many, many, many years. I was in coaching and health promotion, stuff like that out of college, and did a lot of different coaching of dance and all those, all those fun things when your body was able to move like that. Not anymore.

And then we have three kids. So Megan will be 23 next month. And we’re pretty proud of her. She went to Clemson University, graduated out of that. And now she’s working at the business at Craig right now part-time. She’s in like a cost financial analyst position. And then Carson, our middle, is 20 and he’s down at the University of Oklahoma. He’s studying aviation, business aviation management and then a couple of minors because he’s a smarty pants. And he loves flying. He loves being in the clouds. And he was disappointed he didn’t get a flight in today because of the weather. So he’s doing well and loving it. He loves his cowboy boots and his jeans down in Oklahoma. So he’s born for that. And then our youngest, Tristan, is 15. He’s a freshman at Ankeny High School. And he’s on the cusp of turning 16. So he’s really ready for that independence and he’s involved in activities in school. And so it’s been good.

So my main full-time job over the years has been raising those human beings into people to be successful out in the world. In the meantime, really just studying the word of God and getting into healing and deliverance and really love just watching people get set free. So that’s just kind of a quick little snippet.

Jeff Johnson: That’s a wonderful snippet. Thank you for that. I got a couple of questions, though. Okay. So two different small towns. Todd’s from this small town. You’re from this. How close were they?

Amber Summerfeld: Oh, oh gosh, like it’s so—eight, 10 minutes. You know, so there’s Ames, Kelly, and then Huxley. So he kind of lived out in the country between Huxley and Ames. And so he would always ride his little scooter into the town. And I think—I don’t think it was supposed to be as fast as it went. I think he got pulled over a couple times.

Jeff Johnson: But the same, but the same high school. You guys went to school…

Amber Summerfeld: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: Okay. How many Kelly boys come to the Huxley High School?

Amber Summerfeld: They came to Huxley. Yeah. We’re a Ballard Bomber. So that’s where the high school is at. And yeah, he was—he was… I mean, it’s, it’s that fairy tale. It’s not a fairy tale, but like he was the quarterback and I was the dance team, you know, star. So.

Jeff Johnson: I wish. Okay. So for our listeners, I keep promising I’m going to do this on YouTube. And I’m going to. I think 2026 is going to be the year we’re going to do it on, on YouTube. But if you could see Miss Amber, she’s absolutely beautiful. And Todd is stunningly handsome too. That’s why Danielle and I just cannot stand these two. Because they’re just such a gorgeous couple and they love each other so much. So that is a fairy tale, Amber, with you. I think that’s a great way to… Okay. So college then. Did you both go?

Amber Summerfeld: We did. He says that I followed him to UNI, University of Northern Iowa. I mean, it was a part of it, but it wasn’t. I was still pretty independent, I would say. So he was a year older than me. So he went to UNI for accounting. And I knew I wanted to get into teaching. Yeah. And I actually wanted to be a PE teacher because my mom was like a fourth-grade elementary teacher up in Ames. And she really wasn’t… she was… I think she knew enough of the system that she was like, “Nah, why don’t you think about something else.” And so I knew that I wanted to get into some type of teaching element. And of course, the University of Northern Iowa has great teaching programs as well as accounting programs. And so he went up there and I got my feet wet up there. And actually, I tried out for the dance team, the Palm squad up there. And I was pretty sure that I couldn’t make the University of Iowa at the time. And that seemed a little scary, but I knew I could… I knew I could do it at UNI. And so sure enough, I tried out and made it and did that for a couple years, loved it, had a lot of fun. Travelled a bunch and went from teaching to—I tried parks and rec. I didn’t like that. I tried nutrition. That was so dry and boring. And then I landed with health promotion, which is like corporate fitness. So you go into like a bigger company and you have their fitness program.

Post-UNI, we got married. And then he had a job at KPMG back in the days and accountant. He passed his CPA. My gosh, that guy studied and studied and studied and passed it on the first time. And so he got a job at KPMG down in Des Moines. I got a job at Farm Bureau internship. And then I ended up going over to Methodist Hospital to their corporate setting and worked for a couple years in that. And then my older sister had her second child and… I ended up staying home and watching her two kids for a couple years until we had Megan. And then I was like, I’m… I just want to be all in, like I wanted to watch my own kid. And so once Megan came around, I was a full stay-at-home mom.

I did do some other coaching. I don’t know if you ever remember the Iowa Stars? The hockey. They created a dance team. And I remember when they came and approached me if I wanted to help coach that I’m like, “You have dancers? Ice? How does that work?” And so they—some of them could skate and some of them could not—and they would roll out this carpet. We got carpet from Floor & Decor from one of our buddies, Shane, and they did performances out on the halftime of hockey. So that was another, that was another little journey of coaching. So.

Jeff Johnson: Well, coaching ice dancers. I mean, who knew you could do that. I mean, I remember this is… Okay. So I’ve known you for a while. I’m not sure that I’m not sure that that registered with me. So that’s… Were you just… I mean, I imagine there was some of that that was a Lucy skit where people are slipping and falling and then you know…

Amber Summerfeld: Yeah, it was, yeah, it was quite something. Yeah. And there are girls that were scared to be out on ice, but they wanted to dance. And so they got paid to dance—not much, but you know.

Jeff Johnson: Okay. So one of the things you talked about following the Lord and, and Ministry of Deliverance and that sort of thing. The way Miss Danielle and I and you and Todd got connected was through our faith. And we had the blessing of being in a small group together for a while. So I know, I know your heart muscle for the Lord, which is powerful and great. And I also have a kinship with you because you know, my thing is Christian apologetics and I love studying that, giving an answer for your faith. And you’ve got that, but you’ve got another bit of it too with the spiritual supernatural element of faith, which Mr. C. S. Lewis says you cannot have the happy everyday Jesus without the supernatural healing power of Jesus thrown in—those two things cannot be separated from each other. So you’ve gone on to do some study with that as well.

Amber Summerfeld: Yeah. Yeah. So really how that even began was… I would describe that my level of faith is much more experiential than like the IQ of it, right? The theological part where like you and Todd are much more… I think that theology and I’m a little more flip. I’m like, “I don’t know why, but I know it’s true.” And then I will have an experience and then I’ll try and make sense of it. Like that’s kind of—I’m kind of backwards in that way.

And that’s really how it started. Like I was just searching and, and craving more of Holy Spirit. I didn’t understand what Holy Spirit was, you know? I grew up in a Lutheran church, very evangelical, and it was very sin-focused and “Holy Ghost,” which was a little more scary. And then we were at a church here in Ankeny—I gosh, probably 2012 maybe—and I just knew Holy Spirit… I want… like the Holy Spirit was just drawing me to know who He was as a person. And that was just very foreign to me.

Jeff Johnson: That’s just a sense that you had.

Amber Summerfeld: Yeah, I just had a sense like I just needed to know because it didn’t make sense. And it said it in the Bible, but I just… I read a lot of, you know, “Experiencing the Holy Spirit,” went through the Alpha course, which I’m sure a lot of people do, which gave me permission to really ask questions. And then it was during one of the Alpha courses—I think it’s like—it’s like trying to remember what the session was. It might have even been on healing. And I just had a knowing that at that time I was dealing with depression and I was on some medication. I had dealt with that most of our marriage, I would say. So, you know, it’s, it was probably a good 10, 15 years into our marriage.

And I just knew the Holy—I just knew that I wasn’t going to deal with depression anymore. I just had a knowing, like I wasn’t going to take medicine anymore. And I didn’t have shame in taking it. And there’s no shame in taking it because it really did… it took the edge off. It allowed me to see clearly. I just had a knowing that the Holy Spirit was just like—God was like, “No more. I don’t want you dealing with it anymore.” So I went up front for healing and I just declared I’m not going to deal with depression anymore. And this woman, one of my spiritual mamas, prayed over me. She gathered a few of us around me, laid hands on me. And I just, you know, I repented even for agreeing with whatever the depression was. And she was like, you know, “Depression and suicide, go in Jesus’ name.”

And I hadn’t really seen that, like the, the level of suicide, but it was like those little things like, “I wonder who would come to your funeral if you veered off the road.” Like all the… just these little, like these little lies. Right. But I didn’t know that that’s what that was. And so we prayed and I had this most horrendous, gross like foul breath come out of me. And I knew it was gone. I knew whatever depression was there, whatever that what I had… I didn’t have language for it. Now I understand that that was like a spiritual demonic attack. Like it was a demon. It came out of me and off of me and I’ve never dealt with that ever since.

And so that took me on to the trajectory of “I don’t want anybody else to have to go through that.” And so I’ve just been on this, this hunt and this search to be able to be a deliverance minister and to really just pray for people for them to have freedom in Christ Jesus. And so I did spiritual coaching, I, you know, I did different trainings. That’s when I really started understanding that I was a seer. And so that’s kind of even what your question will eventually be. But like learning what it is to be a seer. Like I could see in the spirit and I had a lot of dreams. So I did a lot of dream coursework of how that’s biblical and how God comes to you in your dreams and how He’s talking to you. You know, might be warning you, might bring healing.

And then that’s when I had a dream about basically the Masters in Deliverance, which is out of Wagner University in Pasadena, California. And I had a dream and I had this red banner. And I, I just searched out what it was. And through, of course, some different people, right people bringing different confirmations, I found that it was like Wagner University had a deliverance program and Masters and… and you know me and you’re the same way, I’m always learning, I always want to know more. I’m always wanting to be challenged. I just… I’m not… I’m like, even after graduating from that last year, I’m like, “Hmm, what’s next? What can I get?” Like the next one is like, right, a doctorate. I’m like, “I don’t know. Maybe.”

Jeff Johnson: For sure. Well, I just think that’s fantastic that you’ve equipped yourself with that kind of stuff, Amber. So when you say “seeing in the spirit,” I know in the Old Testament, there’s this beautiful story about Elisha. And he’s on the run and he’s scared and all this… he’s got these people around him and they’re terrified too. And he prays to the Lord and asks God to open their eyes. And when they open their eyes, they can see all of the angels and Elisha says to them, “There’s more of us than there are them.” You know, so we got these guys. And then that gives them all the confidence—is that… see right there. That’s a, that’s a biblical story. So it’s either in the Bible and true or it’s not—you don’t really have a choice of saying, “Well, that was just the poetic kind of way of putting confidence,” you know. So when you say you see in the spirit, is it that sort of thing?

Amber Summerfeld: Yes, yes. I would say the main, the main avenue is in dreams. But then when I can settle in and I can like ask the Lord what’s going on in a situation or a place, I can see in the spirit. And you can see the angelic and you can see the demonic. There’s a supernatural realm, you know, that’s happening. And if they’re in—just as you’re saying—like there’s so many stories in the Bible and all the angels that came in the New Testament too, right? They were messengers. They were bringing the messages of God or protection. And those things are real.

And I feel like in our society a lot of times people think of just like the dark parts or like fear, fears, you know, haunted houses and different things. And it’s like if those things exist, why would, why would the true true nature of God not exist in the supernatural? And so it’s been—it’s been an interesting journey because not everyone understands that that is a way that you can hear from God is by seeing. And I love equipping people where they can understand how God speaks to them. Like all my kids are different. Like one’s a feeler—they can just sense, they can feel, you know, the hurt or the things that are going on around. One’s a knower—one just knows a thing. Like they just get it—don’t know… they don’t understand why. And another one is just more of a perceiver. And so it’s kind of fun to just even have equipping of my kids of: How is it? Do you know that God is talking to you? And what do you do with that? And it’s not a lot of times getting people’s dirty laundry. It’s just… it’s seeing what might be hindering them in the time and how God wants you to get them free from that. Is that—is that received well? I mean, sure.

Jeff Johnson: Well, the reason why I asked this is because you know that you cannot separate the supernatural from the natural and it’s all spiritual. It all belongs to God. And there’s one… You know, I chased down these different… I’ll try to say this quick, Amber. Excuse me. This isn’t about me. I want to get to my question. I want to know how this is received. How you’re received by people because one of these nebulous apologetics questions that’s very fascinating to me is: When Jesus healed… there’s many stories of healing in the Bible. When He healed people, did He do that in His own deity because He was God in the flesh? Or because He chose to become man and walk among us, did He do that through partnership with the Holy Spirit? It’s an apologetic question that comes up from time to time.

So I was talking to my mentor who’s got a doctorate in theology and is in his late 70s and he’s learned it all—well, he wouldn’t say that—he’s learned a lot. But I said to him, I said to him, “What do you think about that?” And he laughed and he said, “Jeff, it is a good question.” But he said, “You know, the interesting thing is, I don’t think God has the same questions about the Bible about Himself that we do.” He said, “When I read my Bible, it says: In the beginning, God.” And it said… and he said, “He doesn’t seem to be very confused about that.” So whether He did that as the Holy Spirit or whether He did that in His own deity, the point is that He healed people. He healed everybody that came to Him for healing.

So with that being the primer for the question: I think there’s a lot of people that have trouble with faith in general, but particularly have trouble with the supernatural side of it because it feels weird to them or something. And it doesn’t to God. But how are you received?

Amber Summerfeld: That’s a good question. And I would say it can be a challenge because I’m… it’s like living in another world in the… living in the supernatural scene and then living in a body in the natural is like… it feels very incongruent. So it feels like there’s always like this little rustling. I would say my—my immediate family, they’re like, “Of course, you had a dream,” or “Of course you saw that.” Like it’s so normal now that they’re like, “Of course.” Like, I would say my external family, they’re not necessarily searching those things out. And so it seems very… like a wall just kind of comes up. Like they… like they just don’t have a perception of it. They don’t understand it. And so they just kind of move on to the next subject. And so it’s not really received. I can’t say that they’re against it—they just don’t have an understanding to really make sense of it or accept it, if that makes sense. And you know, a prophet in your own town, right?

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Amber Summerfeld: So there’s a little bit of that. And it’s not because of, um, angst, but it’s just naive. Like they just… there’s just not an understanding. Now when you go outside of that—and that—that’s going to come and lead me into your question. And you and I have had an experience. I don’t know if you recall where we were at a—where were we?

Jeff Johnson: I don’t remember that.

Amber Summerfeld: And either you—either you have faith to speak into something or you don’t. Right. You can tell people because they’re going to wonder now. Okay.

Jeff Johnson: Okay. You got to tell them how we remember.

Amber Summerfeld: Yeah. Cause like the guy… he was so… Okay. And in conventional business, it’s a lot of business owners, it’s like “faith at work,” right? And there was a gentleman. He was… he spoke and he just… I just… I’m there and I’m just like vibrating cause like the power of the Holy Spirit is on me. And I’m like, “I see a black like magic hat.” Like it’s… remember the—oh, it was like Fantasia with the pointy black hat, the Mickey Mouse hat?

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Amber Summerfeld: And I could see in the spirit that he had this on him. And I’m like, looking around. I’m like, I don’t want to—I’m like talking to God—I’m like, “I don’t want to do this. That guy’s up there talking.” Like I get done and I’m—I’m just asking the Lord, like, “What am I supposed to do?” And you’re like, “You’re supposed to knock the black hat off the guy.” And so I tell Todd, who’s with me, my husband. And I’m like, “I got a word from the Lord. I have to do something.” And Todd’s like, “I’m out.” It’s just one of those days. He was like, “I’m out.” And as soon as I could turn around, he was out the door. And then next thing, you know, you’re by my side. And I’m like, “Hey, Jeff. I need to knock this black hat off this guy in the spirit.” And you’re like, “Okay.” But you heard “black cat.” Do you remember?

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. I heard “black cat.”

Amber Summerfeld: And it was just… I had to give the word to the guy. I’m like, “It looks like the…” And I could tell there was like… he wanted to be… he wasn’t in his lane, ultimately. And he wanted to be like Walt Disney. Like that was the download that I got. And I’m like, “That’s not you. That’s not your hat.” And that’s like the black arts. And he was just dabbling in something that wasn’t of God. So you did the… And we prayed and I threw water on it and… we knocked that thing.

Jeff Johnson: There’s—there’s… It’s one of those convention center floors that’s got the really thin carpet. And we knocked the hat off of the guy, which was invisible. You couldn’t see it other than you can see it. And we were—so we knocked the hat off of the guy, it falls on the floor, and then you took a cup of water and poured it on the hat. And the guy was looking at us like, “Okay. It’s good to be in Iowa.” And we just were like… You know, I mean, I totally, I totally trusted your discernment. And walked away from that going, “I got to get out of here.”

Amber Summerfeld: Yeah. I was touched by God. Let’s hope that he was blessed and something. But that’s the risk that you run, Amber. Yeah. When you… and you be obedient like that. And you don’t do it so that you can embarrass anybody or make anybody feel uncomfortable. You do it out of—out of love. You know, in comparison. That one was particularly… and I looked crazy. But I’m like, “I would rather disappoint this human being and look a little crazy than disappoint the Lord when He gives me things like that.” Like by far, please, I would rather be obedient than disobedient in that moment. And you know what? I would also understand that the Lord would use somebody else if I missed it. You know, like, I think there’s grace in that too.

Jeff Johnson: There certainly, there certainly is. There’s grace in that. Yeah. Okay. So let’s, let’s migrate into this topic of courage then. And I want to ask it like this: I want you to give me a definition. I want an Amber Summerfeld definition of courage. What does that mean to you?

Amber Summerfeld: I had to look it up because what… and I was like, I’m like, “What—what have I done?” And then I said it to Todd and he goes, “No, that’s something you figured out out of fear.” And I was like, “Yeah, but that was courageous to me.” I would say it’s something that you do—it’s not an absence of fear, but it’s taking a step of whether it’s moral courage or for me, spiritual obedience. Clearly, if you’re saving a life like physical safety of someone… standing up for, for, you know, somebody that might, you know, need righteousness, you know, fought for them. But being courageous is, I think, living a life of faith ultimately and faith in what the Lord is saying. And how do you do out of that? How do you activate out of that faith? That’s, to me, it’s kind of like a daily dose of faith.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah, for sure. That’s a—that’s a great way to put that, Amber. Who—who do you know that represents courage to you? Give me an example of a couple of people with skin on them that… historical figures or people in your life.

Amber Summerfeld: Yeah, I would say the first person that… I mean, like the first person that comes to my mind is my cousin Doug Martin. He went straight out of high school. He was probably five, six years older than me. And he was like my brother growing up. He lived on the street. And I didn’t have a brother, but he was like my older brother. And he would come and play basketball and football. He would, you know, stock the T. B. T. Beers on homecoming night and scare them away in his little camera outfit and… And so he left high school and went to be an 82nd Airborne Ranger. And so he immediately went into the military. And so he literally went to war for a long time. And now to this day, he’s one of my biggest prayer warriors, as is his mom and his sister. And so, you know, he just—he knew what he was called to do and be. And he—and now, you know, he’s a huge prayer warrior and just a really good influence in my kids too. Like my son has gone down there a couple of times just to hang out and be with him. And just… he’s just a good man and a good mentor. And just a veteran. So that’s who I would… I think of as being most courageous.

Jeff Johnson: That’s great. Do you think—do you think we live in a society—if your definition of courage is—is living by faith… Do you think we live in a society that’s full of courage? Do we have that as a premium or are we at a real deficit with that?

Amber Summerfeld: I think that’s an easy question. I feel like we’re in a deficit of that. I think people think that running from things is courageous, but I think that we live in a very addictive, fearful, anxious, competitive world. You know, when you got—you got your phone next to you and you can, you know… even coming on here, I’m thinking… I watched some of your videos and I was like, “Man, that guy, that’s amazing. This story and man that one like…” but I’m like, they’re not me, you know? And just being able to be who you are and who God created you to be. Like that’s, that to me is courageous. And like coming on here and saying some of the things like…

Jeff Johnson: The whole cat and the hat thing that’s going to follow us for a long time, Amber. No, being authentic, I think I totally agree with you. Being authentic takes a lot of courage. And I don’t… I feel like we… like we say the same… we parrot the same things that the person down the street parrots, we dress like people, we try to keep up with every… you know, the Joneses as they say. In that, in that sense, yeah, courage is a little bit lacking.

Wow. Was it courageous for you to keep dating Todd all through high school and through college and that’s… I mean, that’s an amazing thing, Amber.

Amber Summerfeld: It was tough. Like I wouldn’t… I love him and we have a great relationship because we both wanted to grow in who we are and, you know, and we’ve done marriage coaching. So it’s, you know, “How do you strengthen that?” But, you know, I wouldn’t necessarily encourage people to do it. It’s tough because—because you change. Like you grow and you change and we broke up multiple times. He’d get too good and too busy and then he wouldn’t treat me great. And then I’d dump him and then he’d date some… who knows who—I can—I can see a few of them. And then we would get back together because it was just like we knew we had a good thing. And I know that the enemy did not want us to survive, you know, like and to have the kids that we have and… and quench that and conquer that strong man of divorce, right? Like, yeah, I think didn’t—didn’t want us together, but we are.

Jeff Johnson: Well, so you said 28 years and Miss Danielle and I on the 19th of April, just a few days ago as we record this, celebrated 29 years.

Amber Summerfeld: Well, congratulations! That’s amazing.

Jeff Johnson: Well, I say praise God, I say praise God for that. And I think—not to delve into marriage counseling stuff from Miss Amber Summerfeld—but don’t you think the covenant portion of marriage takes quite a bit of courage? Sometimes all you can muster.

Amber Summerfeld: Yeah, absolutely. Just to plant your feet and say, “I promised.” And that’s the end of that. So let’s just get on with it.

Jeff Johnson: Yep. And we might disagree and we might agree. And we’re both going to be stubborn. But yeah, if you can continue to stay on that covenant and you—that that is like… covenant period under God.

Amber Summerfeld: Yeah, that’s it. The rest is history.

Jeff Johnson: Well, the reason why I wanted to start this podcast is because I, to your point about authenticity, other people’s stories are not your story. And I can ask this question of everybody that God ever made: What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And there’s so much value in it because it is your story and we can all learn from it. So I want to ask you that question just now, Amber Summerfeld. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done?

Amber Summerfeld: Well, it’s—I would say it’s actually very similar to what that cat hat was. And that was the first time that the Lord showed me a vision on someone like that. And I didn’t know what to do with it. I didn’t—I didn’t have—I didn’t have radar to know what was going on and fully fully understand until afterwards, again, experience. But the Lord knew I would be obedient and I did it. And so we were… it was 2014. I was on a Reformation tour with my mother-in-law. And we were with Dr. Michael Wise. And he’s like a double PhD professor at Northwestern and ordained minister of the E-Free church. Like, like this guy’s like the bomb in theology and a pastor and professor and his lovely wife was on—on the tour as well. And they’re just a powerhouse.

And so we’re on, I don’t know, day five, five or six or something of the, you know, 10-day tour. It may be—maybe later in that, but enough that I knew that we still had a few days with these people. Okay. And I’m like the younger one. I’m the single—I’m not single, but like Todd was not with me. So I’m like the younger one. And they had all been on trips before. So I’m like the newbie. And so getting to know them a little bit, we’re in Switzerland at the time. And this Dr. Michael Wise is up there talking. And all of a sudden I could see this crown, this gold crown up here on his head. And I just start vibrating with the power of God on me. And I’m looking around, my leg’s shaking and I’m looking around and I’m like, “Does nobody see this? Like, how do you not see this?”

And then I’m asking the Lord, I’m like, “What are you—what are you doing? What am I—” I’m not giving a guy a word. I’m not… I had never given a word to somebody, but I knew that that’s what was happening. And so I’m sitting there and then I’m sitting and watching his wife, Kathy, and I get a word for her. And I’m just like… I have to be… There’s a difference when you get a word and you give it to somebody and then you’re never going to see them again. Right. Like that’s—that to me is easy. Like you’re never going to see them again. You can give them a word from the Lord and then they’re going to do what they want to do with it. I have to see these people for like another three or four days. Like… so here again, it’s your question: How are they going to respond to that? Yeah.

Super scary for me, because I don’t step out of… I normally am not that person where it’s just like blurting something out. So he gets done talking. And I—so I get the word and the word was: “With great responsibility comes great authority.” It was—that was it. “With great responsibility comes great authority.” And I’m like, doesn’t make sense to me. Like, I don’t really know what’s going on. And so then I go and I tell his wife first, because she’s like the gatekeeper. Right. And I’m like, “I got a word for your husband. I saw this. This is what I heard from the Lord.” And she goes, “Oh, okay, you’re going to have to tell him.” And I’m like, “No, you’re going to have to tell him.” Like he was… he was a very nice man. But I was like, I don’t know how to approach this. And, um, and then the Lord, He gave me a word for her. And it was “the mother of many.” And they had never had children. So I thought it was like a huge stab. And she—she took it. And she knew how the Lord had never really given them children, but with their—their calling in their ministry of Minnesota, they really did… she really did mother a lot of people. And like she’s a spiritual mom of a lot, you know.

Amber Summerfeld: And so I tell her that, she cries. And then I go up to him and I tell him, I’m like—with great—like, “You have the gold crown. With great responsibility comes great authority.” And, you know, he received it. And he mentioned that that’s the second time that somebody had given them that word. And then come to find out later, there was a third person that gave him the same word. And it was in development of a healing ministry. And so he took that out of faith.

And I bawl my eyes out as we leave, cause I’m like, you know, like, overcome by the power of the Holy Spirit. And, sure, out of courage… but every step that I would take in seeing and then delivering those things, the Lord would give me more. And He would reveal more. And it was just like being obedient to what He was doing and saying. And now they—I mean, he’s still a professor of Northwestern University—they have a healing ministry. They’ve developed a healing ministry in the church that they’re at, which is a very evangelical, typical… you know, there’s not really the “more,” but he’s—he’s in a healing ministry.

And I ran into them again at Bethel, actually, when I went out to Bethel with Becky Stewart—which your wife hooked me up with Becky Stewart to even go on that trip, of all things. And then, so it was years later after this time in Switzerland. Who do I—who do I run into at this Bethel School of Prophets? But Michael Wise and his wife Kathy, and they’re going to the School of Prophets, learning more about the healing ministry. Right. And you—and you had this little name tag that you would put on yourself of what the Lord calls you. And Kathy put on hers: “Mother of Many.”

Jeff Johnson: Oh, really?

Amber Summerfeld: And yeah. And so it’s just really cool to see God work.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. So you said—that’s a beautiful story, Amber. Thank you.

Amber Summerfeld: And you should have him on your podcast. You should look him up. I’ll try and connect you. He’d be amazing.

Jeff Johnson: Connect me. I’ll do it for sure. 100%. But I’m not done with you yet. So you said that that was the most courageous thing because that’s a step of faith. Yeah. So what is it that’s making you trepidatious to give him that word? Because that’s a very positive thing. Yeah. Is it because of just in your humanness, this guy’s arrived and he’s got the stuff and “Who am I to say anything to him?”

Amber Summerfeld: Yep. Exactly that. And just not understanding, you know, going back to the authenticity—like, who am I even to give this word? But the Lord used me, and He used other people to give him the same confirming word to start… basically, it was telling him to start a healing ministry. And it was—it’s just scary because, again, you don’t know how people are going to receive it. They might not. You know, like, I might look crazy. And you know what? I’ve gotten to the point where that’s just normal.

But then at that time, right, at that time, I didn’t understand what that little interaction could do. Because then I went up to Minnesota a couple of years after that, and they were just showing me their healing ministry and the amount of people that were coming in, and he goes, “You’re a part of that.” Right. And I’m like, little—little me in this little—right?

Jeff Johnson: That’s right. Because you had enough courage to tell him the truth, to tell him what the Lord told you to do. And now you have people coming and getting healed.

Amber Summerfeld: Yeah. And so it’s just like—that’s God. Like, but God had a really big picture that He wanted to create in that. And then, okay, now talk about this… talk about this a little bit. I’m not going to keep you for a long time, Amber, but I’m going to keep you. I want to answer some of these questions. Okay.

Jeff Johnson: Okay. So—no, no, no. So, people might see that courage, that walking in faith, as—as boldness in the best sort of a sense. And you can see that as inappropriate boldness. Well, somebody’s just bold and they walk into a room and they own it and all that kind of stuff. Well, God tells us we’re supposed to approach people with gentleness and respect. So we’re supposed to do that with love. He also tells us that truth spoken in love is a “kiss on the lips.” So it’s going to be received in—in the vein that it was offered. But don’t you think that—don’t you think that that’s one of the devil’s ploys is to keep people’s mouths shut? So that we don’t want to look the fool and we don’t want to talk about that because… I just think—I think we’re so stymied and then we end up like lemmings walking around looking like everybody else, you know, instead of operating in the gifts.

Amber Summerfeld: Right. Right. And you know, and you’re—I don’t know all the things that are going on with some of the higher, you know, prophetic ministries. I haven’t—I haven’t gotten myself in the weeds of… like, there’s a major “cleanup” of the prophetic ministry that’s happening. And I don’t think that’s bad. But at the same time, then you have other ministries that are canceling their conferences because of these issues.

And I just really see like that is really growing and people are starting to understand their gifting, but they’re still hiding in that and fearful that they might get—they might offend somebody, or they don’t necessarily e—they don’t necessarily even understand how they’re hearing from the Lord. I feel like I—I feel like there could be better equipping of how the Holy Spirit works in people in churches to make it healthy and make it normal and not weird.

And there—there is the false. Like, I come across that often. Like, there are people that they’re—they’re—they’re not walking in the true power of—of God; they’re walking in their own self and soul and out of their own pain. And so it’s important to be ministering out of your breakthrough rather than your pain, because if you’re ministering out of your pain, you’re just passing your pain along to somebody else. But I definitely think that the, you know, the enemy—especially with just the—the things that we can see on TV—it’s just… you have to be discerning, you know, what—what’s happening.

I’m taught… this is a set—I don’t know why this one, but like—Todd watched Stranger Things. I don’t know if you’ve ever watched that. And I’m very careful in the things that I watch. There’s—and that’s because I do dream. And so if I watch stuff, then if I watch a dark movie or whatever, then I’ll dream that, and that’s not fun. Yeah. Right? Like there’s—there’s music, there’s videos. But every so often I got to watch a good Kung Fu movie. I feel like my angels are like, ready to, like, talk about things like… I don’t know.

And so he and Carson watch Stranger Things and I’d watch a little, like little snippets of it and like, “Ooh, let’s… I can’t—I can’t do that.” And finally, the Lord, like, let me watch it. And—and it just showed the underground, it just showed the other world—the supernatural world—kind of from a dark sense, but how Jesus is the one true light and how if we’re connected to Him, there is a battle. Like, there is a spiritual battle like that. We’re not just all lovey-dovey, right? Like even in that story of the Bible that you were talking about—like, “There’s more with us than against us” on the angelic. There is a spiritual battle and—and it is—it’s for the souls and—and it’s for our agreements. And so sometimes, the Lord will let me watch stuff like that just so I know like… okay, those are—those are some of the things that are attacking people. I just have to have more understanding of it. So then I can pray the opposite or whatever the Lord is, you know, showing. That’s kind of a long answer to that.

Jeff Johnson: That’s a great answer. Os Guinness recommended to me the book Healing Reawakening by Francis MacNutt.

Amber Summerfeld: Oh, yeah.

Jeff Johnson: Because I was asking him about healing. I was like, it’s like, what’s the deal with the—either it is or it isn’t, you know? I mean, put up your dukes. I mean, is this thing a real thing or what? And he said that his mind was—his mind was really changed, different than it was years ago, by Francis MacNutt’s book. And he said there’s other people, you know, that he’s listened to and heard talk and his own biblical study and everything.

But anyway, I’m digressing. The point of Francis MacNutt’s book for the listeners that haven’t read it is he goes back through time and he chronicles supernatural healing and how it started. You know, when people were baptizing in the beginning, they were expected to come out of the water operating in their—in their supernatural gifts; these spiritual gifts were activated right then. And even to such an extent that people were less interested in going to the Roman, the Colosseum, and watching gladiators take each other’s heads off because they’d rather see a crooked hand made straight. And they were doing that instead because it was a real, very real thing.

Well, it’s even chronicled in the Bible where a magician says, “Teach me how to do this. I want to do this.” And Pharaoh’s guys, you know, they could do a lot of the things that—that—that Moses was calling down, you know? At the same time, they couldn’t do all of them, but they could do some. So that we—so we know that you can be tricked a little bit. Well, that’s what happened with the early Christians is that they would start to trick people and pretend to heal when they really wouldn’t do it. Well, that—that injected doubt into all of that. And so people started to go, “Well, I’m not sure that I can believe in one,” and then they started to think, “Well, I’m not sure that these supernatural things really exist.”

It’s too long of an answer, Amber, but don’t you think it would be a logical, very logical ploy of the evil one to hijack people’s supernatural gifts and make them look weird and make them look odd and embarrass the thunder out of people and do it wrong so that people would look at people like you that can see in the—in the supernatural and give people a word… would be able to take your witness and—and have it discounted?

Amber Summerfeld: Yeah, oh, yeah. That’s absolutely from the very beginning where—where Satan, you know, as a snake was like, “Did God really say that?” So, did God really heal that? Right? I mean, that—that absolutely is happening and operating in people. Same thing with like aliens, you know? Like, “There are aliens in the Bible.” I think they’re demons, I mean, personally, but yeah.

So in—and a religious spirit… as we—this does get complicated—but as if you go to the church and you get healed and then you go out, then I feel like there’s this weird fear even in the church that, “Well, now they’re not going to need me because they’ve now been healed.” So then like, that’s another level of it too. But absolutely, they—they make us look crazy. And I’m not necessarily unaccepted by my family, but I know that they’re like, “You do what? Cause why?” I don’t even—they don’t even understand it. And so that—it could cause a divide in my family. And I feel like it tried to, but I just don’t give entertainment. Like, I don’t entertain it. I’m just like, I know that they’re not necessarily knowing and it’s not out of any discontent.

But yeah, absolutely, the enemy doesn’t want us properly activated in the gifts. And would rather have people in New Age and astrology and looking for their future and things that are worldly and idols, other things. And, you know, living in America, I don’t think our Western world fully understands, you know, idol worship and witchcraft and… that’s real and that’s—that’s happening. And that’s even happening in the—in the Christian arena, you know? There’s Christian witchcraft—praying for something that… yes, I understand that you want that, but did God say that?

Jeff Johnson: Yeah, yeah, exactly. See, this gets back to the courage—your perfect definition, so beautiful. The courage is walking in faith. And here—here is a big chunk of courage: walking in spiritual gifts in a world that looks—in a world that looks at that stuff and goes, “Really?” Right? Because “I don’t do that every day.” Well, maybe you haven’t asked for it. Okay, so talk about that then, about people that might be wanting to be courageous and operate in those kind of spiritual gifts. Are they for—are they for everybody? Does God give every single person the same thing? You know, how do they—how do they move towards where you’re at?

Amber Summerfeld: I would say the two biggest—I would say the two biggest things to do is just start reading about Holy Spirit. You know, get books on it, get in the Word, and get—get books on people’s experience with Holy Spirit to really understand, you know, the Trinity and why Jesus died to leave us with the Holy Spirit so that we are all the prophets. Right? We’re not in the Old Testament, where God would only talk to the prophets. Like, we all have that prophetic gifting.

But then the second thing is to get around people that do operate in the gifts and—and ask them questions and ask for elders to pray for you. And so it’s—it’s—it’s doing your own soaking in knowledge and wisdom, but then getting around other believers that have that experience and have that wisdom and support system. Because you don’t want to do it alone. Those would be the two—two main ways that I would say.

And that’s how I started. Like, I just started soaking up what Holy—Holy Spirit was. I’m like, I didn’t—I didn’t know He wanted to be invited. I didn’t know that—like, I didn’t really know much about Him. And so when I prayed for—I prayed and fasted—I think it was 2010 or 11 or something like that, maybe 11 or 12—and I fasted and prayed was before Black Friday, or Good Friday. And that was when I was filled with the Holy Spirit. I fasted, I woke up one night, and I had like, energy in my hands that I had never again experienced—had to look that up, didn’t know what it was. But that was, right, a power source of the Holy Spirit.

I asked for elders to lay hands on me and I was filled with the Holy Spirit. And I wanted everything. I’m like, “Okay, those are—these are all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. And I know I might only get one of them—I want them all.” So I would pray that the Holy Spirit would fill me with healing and miracles and signs and wonders and prophecy and—and like, I wanted everything. It was just like drinking from the fire hose. Like, “Give me whatever it is that you want me to have, Lord.” And I would say that there’s seasons, though, where I can see more, and then there’s seasons where it’s just a little more quiet and I feel like I’m feeling more around me. But it’s for everyone and it’s biblical.

Jeff Johnson: It’s totally biblical. And the beautiful thing about our faith, Amber, is that God invites that: “Come and see.” Yeah. You know, dig around here and learn about me and find and ask your questions. You know, even though He’s not—as my—as my mentor so aptly says—He’s not confused about anything. But He—but He appreciates our learning. You know, Proverbs 25:2 says it’s the glory of God to conceal a matter and it’s the glory of kings to seek it out. We’re supposed to be fussing over this stuff to draw closer to Him. So listen to what Amber says and just ask those questions and go—go search and go do it.

Okay, maybe this is the last one and then I’ll let you go. Gosh, I could talk to you a bunch. So we know in the scriptures that there are false prophets. There’s people that are full of baloney and nefariously… and I think also some people that don’t quite know they’re full of baloney and maybe they’re trying, but they’re not—they’re doing it for wrong reasons and they’re not seeking God in the thing. He also tells us that we’re supposed to test every spirit and we’re supposed to be like the Bereans—we’re not supposed to just buy—we’re supposed to check it out. So how do you—how do you encourage people to—to be cautious but not tamp down the Holy Spirit?

Amber Summerfeld: Yeah. I’ll give me an experience and then I’ll give you what I feel like the answer is to that. And again, I had a dream on it. And it was like this wolf, and he came in and he came around and I was like hidden in this veil and I knew that I had to be really, really, like, still. And then I woke up knowing that this one individual was a false prophet. Like, it was just the knowing. I wasn’t searching it out, right? It was—I just knew that the Lord was like, “Don’t listen to this man.” And I was like, “Okay, good to know.”

Because then I would have people kind of come—it was COVID-ish time—and you’d have people coming and asking. They’re like, “Well, I heard this from this prophet and I heard…” and I’m like… I had already been warned. And like—right? And so, one: ask the Holy Spirit. Like, ask the Lord, like, to give you discerning of spirits so you can discern. And part of that is not taking everything at face value—like, really listening, really asking, really searching.

But ultimately, I think there’s fruit. You look at the fruit. Is there good fruit or bad fruit out of it? I think that’s the litmus test. Is… what are their relationships like afterwards? You know, what—what are—it—it’s hard to describe fruit, right? But like: how are their relationships? How do things settle in your spirit? And… yeah. But it’s ultimately going in prayer to the Lord and not necessarily listening or whatever everybody says. And you might go against the grain, because I did—I believed the guy until the Lord gave me a dream and I’m like, “Okay, know yourself.” I can—let’s move that one.

Jeff Johnson: And trust the Lord and go check it out.

Amber Summerfeld: Yes. But in discerning of spirits is a—is a big one. And that’s—that’s weighty. You know, I think we all have that gifting and some… and I would even say some seasons you might… it might be weightier, it might be heavier. But it—it’s a gut check, usually. Yeah. You know, what you’re in—you call intuition—go with your gut; you usually know. And then, you know, if people are saying, “Maybe shouldn’t put so much, you know, weight in somebody’s word,” and don’t idol them. Like, as soon as you start idling a person above Jesus, you’re going to go south. And—and that’s, you know, again, the other that answer is, right? That—that prophet should be leading you to Jesus. It shouldn’t be leading you to that person, right? It should always be leading you to God.

Jeff Johnson: Charles Spurgeon said, “Pick the very best friends you can possibly pick and then follow them only so far as they follow Jesus.”

Amber Summerfeld: Yes. Well said.

Jeff Johnson: And I think that’s right. So I want to ask: are you—how are you active in your gifting now? I mean, are you pouring this out purposefully in places? Or are you just living your life and you bump into people and God shows you? Because I think both of those things can be true. But where’s the Lord got you with this gift now?

Amber Summerfeld: One of the ways I would say… from the Masters, what really helped that I would like to spend more time on, and every time I set time upon it, it doesn’t really necessarily come to fruition… so it’s something that is like my bucket—is just writing. It helped—it helped refine my writing, and I really do love to write. And so getting some of those things published is—and just in publishing what has been said on my heart.

But then, like, practically, I’m at Heartland Church in Ankeny, on the north side of Ankeny. And so they have a freedom ministries, which is like inner healing, Sozo, deliverance type setting. And so I’m—I’m part of a team there under Larry and Cheryl’s. And they get the intake forms and then they just kind of spread them out to the us team members. So then we meet… there’s two of us that meet with an individual. We walk them through prayer, inner healing of, you know, repentance, forgiveness, renouncing of vows, and just, you know, healing if that’s something that they’re needing.

And so that’s practically where I’m at, and that’s been really powerful. There’s a lot of hurting people. There’s a lot of individuals that are going through a lot of hard stuff. And so I’ve been able to do that. And then I’m also… it’s a glory—it’s like my glorified volunteer season right now. That’s how I would describe this. So I mean, it’s the freedom ministry is, you know, it’s a couple hours, you know, when you meet with an individual. So I’m doing that. And then they have an altar ministry, like a prayer ministry. And so they’ve put me as director of altar ministry. And so that’s just kind of making sure people are going through the training that they need to go through. If there’s questions, issues… it’s just kind of like filtering people who are ready to be spiritually cleansed, right? To be able to then pour out and pray over people that come out for prayer after services. And so those are kind of the ways that I’m at.

Jeff Johnson: I think it’s wonderful, Amber. I think it’s great. And a wonderful wife and wonderful mother and a wonderful friend and all of that kind of stuff. Go see him hand in hand. So along the lines of how I said I love this podcast topic—because I could ask literally anybody that God ever made this question: “What’s the most courageous thing?”—the other thing that I believe, just like that, is whenever any of us walk in our godly-given gift sets, the entire world gets better. Whether they’re a neighbor right next to us or whether they’re halfway around the world. And you’re certainly doing that, Amber. And I’m blessed to know you.

So, Amber Summerfeld, child of God and woman of immense courage, thank you so much for spending time with us today.

Amber Summerfeld: Thank you for having me, Jeff. It was super fun, enjoyed it. It’s an honor. Yep. You’re walking your identity, right? It’s all about identity. Most… what is it? “The most important thing about you is who you believe God is.”

Jeff Johnson: Oh, I love that. Like, if He’s not—He’s not everything. But thank you for joining us today on Courageous.

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