Beyond Borders: Sarif Hossain’s Journey of Courage, Conviction, and Inspiring Future Leaders

In the latest episode of “Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics,” host Jeff Johnson interviews Sarif Hossain, a third-generation heir of the Pataka Group, a prominent family business in India employing 150,000 workers, predominantly women. Sarif shares his journey, highlighting how his father’s impactful guidance shaped his understanding of courage, which he likens to a tree nurtured by fear. He emphasizes that courage is a universal experience transcending cultural boundaries and recounts a pivotal moment of standing up against family members to protect his employees, showcasing the personal sacrifices that accompany principled decisions. The discussion culminates with Sarif reflecting on the importance of legacy and the lessons he hopes to impart as he begins teaching at Oxford, aiming to inspire future leaders through his experiences.

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See you in the next episode! Be blessed!

Full Transcript

Intro:
Welcome to Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics, a look into what motivates us to step out in courage and the everyday bravery of men and women like you. In each episode, we hear a personal story of bravery centered around this. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And now your host, founder of Crossroads Apologetics, Jeff Johnson. 

Jeff Johnson:
Hello, friends. Welcome to another edition of the Courageous Crossroads. There’s a quote by John Stott that I love. It says, leaders have power, but power is safe only in the hands of those who humble themselves to serve. I love that idea of being a humble leader. And I say thank you, Lord, for surrounding me with such a wonderful group of examples of humble leaders. And our next guest is all of that. My friend Sarif, who I met in the UK last year and became fast friends with him, exemplifies for me what it means to be a humble leader and also happens to be a part of the family that owns the largest family business india, which is not a tiny deal. And I cannot wait for you to hear what he has to say about courage. Thanks, everybody, for joining us again. 

Jeff Johnson:
I’m with my dear friend Sarif Hussain, who is india right now. And Sharif and I met at Engagement in Oxford last year and became fast friends. I think it’s mostly because we both have a infatuation for great hats. Isn’t that true, Sarif? 

Sarif Hossain:
Well, first of all, thank you, Jeff, for having me on your podcast. It’s quite an honor and it’s a pleasure that I can be a part of this journey. And yes, I think that’s where we started off connecting. I still remember your first comment to me, your first comment was about my fedora and we started discussing hats. And yeah, that’s what brought us together on the very first day. 

Jeff Johnson:
I think there was a good. There was a pretty good haberdashery that sold hats in Oxford, wasn’t there? 

Sarif Hossain:
Oh, yes, there is. There’s the shop called the Lade and I. But I frequent it every time I go to Oxford. And. Yeah, so you can still. We can still compete and we can still find. Find something to put in our collection, which the other one doesn’t have. Though I think we are quite at par so far. 

Jeff Johnson:
That’s right. We’re lucky enough to both have beautiful bald heads, so we get to adorn them with this. These beautiful hats. Well, that’s so grateful that you’re joining us today and we’re talking about the subject of courage and what that means to you. And of course, we get down to the main point of the podcast where I’m going to ask you that question, what’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? But before we do that, can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, where you’re at right now, a little bit about your family, maybe about your business, whatever you’d like to share so they can understand where you are and who we’re talking to. 

Sarif Hossain:
So I am, I’m 38 years old, not yet in my middle ages. I am married, I have two children. I live in Calcutta, which is the finest city in the whole of India. And I have a family business. I’m the third generation in a family business that was started in 1952 by my grandfather. And we in terms of that, my work, the family business is the largest privately owned family business india and we are the largest employers in the country. We have 150,000 workers working for our company. And that’s. It goes from generation to generation. So the mantle passed from my grandfather to my father, and I’m next in line to take the responsibility of the business. No pressure at all. And. 

Jeff Johnson:
Right. 

Sarif Hossain:
And on a very personal side, I am a very. I’m an enthusiast. I’m an enthusiast for everything new. I’m an enthusiast for new journeys. I love meeting people. I love knowing things that I have not been exposed to before. And that is precisely why even our journey, our roads collided at Oxford because I was out rediscovering myself. And yeah, that’s a very brief thing about me. 

Jeff Johnson:
Tell and tell people a couple of little tidbits about your business, like what kind of industries are you in? Because it’s at your business is vast. 

Sarif Hossain:
Absolutely. So 150000 people. These 150, 000 people, they’re 90 of them are women workers. And india, that is. That’s unusual. It’s one of its kind because women in social norms of our culture, it’s a taboo for women to work other than, you know, being in teaching or domestic work. So that way it’s been different. The thing is, my business is a conglomerate, so it started off as a tobacco business or a consumer goods business. And early in the 90s, after about 40 years in the business, my father, when he joined the company in 1982, he realized that the company needs to have various strategic alignments. You know, it should have various strategic modularities. And that’s when the diversification began. 

Sarif Hossain:
And so at this point, very oddly, my business includes tobacco, which is completely different from another business vertical, which is tea which is completely different from third business vertical, which is silk. And completely different from the fourth business vertical, which is health care and education. So we run a hospital, we operate 150 bed hospital here in Bengal. 

Jeff Johnson:
Wow. 

Sarif Hossain:
And we do health camps providing free health treatment to the rural parts of India. And the business is very unique in its way that every person who works in the business, we’re like a family. So the company is it functions as, you know, we don’t call ourselves as Pataka. The name of the company is Pataka Group. But when we talk in regular terms, we call ourselves the Pataka family, which means everyone associated to the Pataka. 

Jeff Johnson:
Wow. It’s. I mean, it’s an amazing business. And I got to learn a lot more about your company when were doing our thing in Oxford. And one of the things that I love so much about that class that we got to take was being able to meet different people from different cultures, people from all around the world that were in different industries, different age groups. You know, I’m 56, you’re 38. So we’re a little bit, you know, different in that regard. But boy, I just learned so much from those kind of differences. So I think this is particularly valuable on this podcast now to learn about your mind on courage. And the other thing is, if I can just keep applauding you a little bit because I have such respect for you, Sarif. I really do. You carry this mantle of excellence with you. 

Jeff Johnson:
I mean, from your fedora to the way you ask questions, to the way that you know, talk about your family and business and that sort of thing. There’s a, there’s an air of excellence about you which is really noticeable. And I just want to congratulate you and acknowledge that about you, Sarif. 

Sarif Hossain:
Thank you. That’s very kind of you. On a joking note, maybe on a lighter note, I’m a Leo. And because I’m a lion, maybe I wear my mane very boldly. Williams wear the crown very well. And. But that aside, I think this is something that would reflect further into this session the sense of responsibility or the sense of. Well, from very early childhood, I had a sense, were instilled in the sense of pride, a sense of pride about what we are doing because it is not just business. It’s my business is actually a welfare business model. So when the company was started, because the partition of India had just taken place in 1947, and most of the lands that where my grandparents and my ancestors, the region where they were born, or where they used to live. 

Sarif Hossain:
Most of the land went away on the other side of the border to Bangladesh. And overnight, people, not just my family or my relatives, but thousands and thousands of people in. Within that province overnight, they lost everything. And there was a sense of responsibility that my grandfather had that, you know, I need to. Farming cannot be the only way ahead. And we need to now get into business. And because of this welfare mindset, that welfare mindset started. It was there in my father from the time he was born because he saw the difficulties of the villages. And it was the mindset that was instilled in me from very early childhood. So we had a sense of pride that were making a difference to hundreds of thousands of people. 

Sarif Hossain:
And at the same time, we also realized that responsibility, that pride also came with a sense of humility. So it came with a sense of response. You know, understanding that we have influence over so many people, it requires us to carry ourselves as role models for. For all of them, for them to look up to, for them to live up to, and for them to aspire that someday they can also become or they can get to the same place. And in order to be a role model to people, I think it’s just something that was instilled with the upbringing and came in automatically as a child. Yeah, but. But thank you. You’re right. I. This reminds me of one of the sessions where we spoke. One of the module lecturers spoke to us about difference and indifference. 

Sarif Hossain:
And I think that is something that always struck me, that always stays with me personally. I carry with me to my workplace or even when I meet new people in the classroom, when I met you, or, you know, the other colleagues in the classroom, that it is in this difference that we have between each other that we find we discover ourselves and we learn new things. So difference is the pathway to. To moving forward. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah, absolutely. Agree. Yeah. Okay, Sharif, give me some insight into courage. I guess I’ll ask two questions at the same time. Number one is I want to know what your mind is on courage. So when you think about courage, what comes to mind? How do you define that? And also I’d be curious to know, has your mind on courage evolved over time? I’m thinking because you’re a part of a family business in a very large country, in a very large business, and as you approach this responsibility of taking the helm, has your idea of courage changed from when you were a little boy to where you are now? So defining courage, and how has it evolved? 

Sarif Hossain:
Well, I’ll. I think I should start off with a story. And I think it’s a story I already shared with you once when I was nine years old. We have annual meetings with our business partners. And this annual meeting involves the sales targets whose performance has been good enough, who fell short of performance, who needs support. And this annual meeting, it’s about 200 odd people are there in that room. And I was about 8 or 9 years old and my father, the night before the meeting, he just came and told me, you know what? Tomorrow, the meeting’s welcome speech, you’re going to deliver the welcome speech. And I had never done any public speaking before, let alone speak to 200 people. I’d never spoken to 20 people until that moment. 

Sarif Hossain:
And that was a moment that required me to, you know, muster up a lot of courage to stand in front of those 200 people who are way senior than me, way more experienced, and to give them a welcome speech for five minutes on a microphone. So, yeah, I mean, the question to answer, I’ll go reverse on the question that you asked me. The idea of courage, or what courage means to me, it changes. It definitely changes. If you would have asked me this question when I was 8, the answer would have been different. At 18, I would have given you a different answer. Today I have a different answer for it. And ask me 10 years later, I’ll have a different version of it. And I think that’s what courage is actually about. 

Sarif Hossain:
To me, to me personally, courage is not something, not an achievement or not a piece of trophy that you hold on to. It’s a pattern that you keep passing on and a new form of courage. You have to meet a new challenge, take on a new role. And that automatically means a completely new perspective of courage. You have to keep the way open for a new perspective of courage to come into your life. 

Jeff Johnson:
Is it about, is it about passing through fear primarily? You know, a fearful challenge like what do I do here? Is it about overcoming risk? I mean, how do you define courage in those regards? 

Sarif Hossain:
I completely, I think all of it relates down to fear. I mean, for me, not for me. I mean, the way I see it might sound very philosophical, but I like to, I have always believed in a very analogical, you know, a very specific analogy about courage. I think of courage as a tree. And the results that come out of courage, the achievements that we make are the fruits from that tree. And fear is the root. The root feeds the tree. And without a proper root, without a healthy root, the tree can never grow. It can Never bear fruits. Same way. I feel that without having a sense of fear, I don’t think courage can come out from us. We can’t draw out courage from our souls and from our heart. So for me, fear is an important part. 

Sarif Hossain:
That’s the beginning steps of courage. And by fear, I do not mean something like fear of death or, you know, something that really petrifies you, but it’s the little fears that you have. Fear of feeling at something, fear of disappointing someone, or fear of not living up to your full potential. I think these little fears are important to keep pushing ourselves to better and. Yeah, and as we keep pushing ourselves to better, that’s when we are taking the courageous steps. 

Jeff Johnson:
I think that’s a great way to put it. Sarif, you know that fear is the catalyst. You know, it’s the little tiny spark or something like that draws out fear, that calls you to the moment, that sort of thing. I don’t know if this relates, but I’m just thinking about it. I often tell people that I don’t ever change anything in my life unless the pain of not changing becomes greater than the pain of the change. Hope I’m saying that correctly, but you know what I mean, Like, I’ve got a. You know, it’s got to be harder for me to stay put and not do anything than it is for me to change and do something different. And I think that might be the. The fear piece. That might be. 

Jeff Johnson:
Whatever the catalyst is to get me to take a courageous act to go do something that I otherwise wouldn’t do. 

Sarif Hossain:
I completely understand. Maybe I would. In my case, even if I rephrase it is the same. It is on the same note of thought. My fear is leaving no impact behind me and leaving a world behind me where I have not made any difference, leaving a set of people behind me who do note my absence. And so, yeah, I feel that fear is to do with change. Change is to do with fear. And I. I can’t leave something unchanged as well. Just as you. You said it, things need to change. Even if it is, there’s nothing perfect in this world. And if something is appearing perfect, there’s definitely something wrong with it. So, right. I. I need to. I need to still find out how I can make it even better. Even better. 

Sarif Hossain:
And what seems perfect to me or my generation, in our generation, what seems perfect will not seem perfect to the generations after us. So I need to keep that avenue of imperfection in the perfect path or whatever perfection that we are Pursuing, we need to keep that some little scope of imperfection for the next generation to do their own things, for them to, you know, try out something different and make a contribution to it. 

Jeff Johnson:
So fear is the necessary catalyst to call out courage in us. I heard you loud with that. And then, and then the courage bit. The effect of that is to lead to smoother sailing for generations, for people that are coming behind you, that sort of thing. 

Sarif Hossain:
Yes, yes. And I think in terms of fear, I’ve heard many speakers in our class and have. I’ve been following your podcast as well, which is really inspirational, by the way. Thank you very much. And well, in everyone’s words, in everyone’s stories, everybody’s story, you sense a sense of fear definitely present in some form or the other. And I feel in this world there are two kinds of people that those who get gripped by fear and they give up and they’re those who face or stand up to their fears and they try to move forward and find a way out of it. And yeah, and I think which one of these we are going to be, that’s a choice left to us. 

Sarif Hossain:
And in on this line, I find faith a very important part of my life because whether you call it faith in God or faith in destiny, or faith in science or faith in future, any form of faith, I think without faith there can be no courageous act. And without faith, you can never overcome fear. 

Jeff Johnson:
Wow. Wow, that’s very well said. Okay, so now I got a couple other questions for you before we get down to the main question, which is what’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? But I want to remind you and remind all the listeners, I only ask brilliant people on this podcast, so I give myself license to ask really tough questions. So here’s the first one. Serif, my friend, you are well traveled. So you’ve been around the world and you’ve seen a lot of things. I’m curious, is courage the same india as it is in the United States, as it is in the UK as it is in Asia? Is it, is it similar everywhere? 

Sarif Hossain:
There’s a. It’s not a very easy question to answer, but you’re right. I’ve. I’ve traveled to close to 40 countries and I have. Well, I always immerse myself into the culture of wherever I travel. You know, I don’t. Each of these countries have traveled as a, you know, deep immersing kind of a travel. You know, I do my business and then after that I try to know people, I now try to know their stories, their lives. And there is a superficial way of looking at things and then there is a deeper way of looking at things. If you look at it superficially, it might seem that courage means different in different cultures. Maybe in my country, india, it might seem courage, it’s something to do with your profession or in. 

Sarif Hossain:
Maybe if you go to China, you might think courage is something to do with your political alignment. If you go to America, you might think that, oh, courage is something to do with how you guide your family or how you bind your family. You know, different. It might seem that there are different issues. But deep down, if you look at it, I think courage means the same across all the culture. It is a transition of the soul. It’s the transition of the soul from one state of being to another state of being and constantly pursuing that path of betterment. 

Sarif Hossain:
And so to me, I think someone who is taking a transition of soul by taking up a new job or trying to start a new business, or someone who is trying to raise his family, you know, or someone who is in Africa trying to arrange for water for his village, it’s all soul changing, transition. And I think courage is the same across all of all these cultures. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah, I’m not, I don’t pretend to be as well traveled as you are, Sarif, but I completely agree with you. The places that I’ve been fundamentally down at its core, I think the courage is the same thing. It’s a call to be brave, it’s called to press through fear. It’s all of that kind of thing. 

Speaker 1
So. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah, it’s very well put. Okay. The other, the last tough question I was going to ask you before I ask you the. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done is I’m, I have a Christian worldview. That’s the lens through which I see the world and everything in it. And that’s very much faith based. You’re a faithful man. But I think it might be a different worldview. Is that correct? 

Sarif Hossain:
Sure, Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Jeff Johnson:
Well, so before, let me jump in and ask a question, then you can finish it. Are you, do you and I experience courage the same way, having two different worldviews? It’s kind of related to the question that I just asked you, but I’m curious about that. 

Sarif Hossain:
I think, yes, we do face it the same way. People would have different perspectives on it, but end of the day, I think you’re made of flesh and bones and you have blood flowing through your veins. I’m also made of flesh and bones and blood flowing through my veins. So you feel pain, I feel pain. You feel joy, I feel joy. I think courage has got nothing to do with which country you’re from or which religion you’re from. It is a very human thing. Fear, courage and faith. It’s individual, it’s a very human thing. And as long as we are, we’re talking about two human beings, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a Muslim or a Christian or a Hindu or a Sikh, it doesn’t matter. I’ve seen it to be the same. 

Sarif Hossain:
And I can say this firsthand because in my country, even though India is one country, it’s a country of 28 countries, each province is a different culture, different religion, different attire, different food, different family structures. But if you go deep into each one’s lives, you see the emotions are the same for every one of them. So I’ve seen a Sikh person or a Hindu person think and struggle in the same way as I, as a Muslim would think and do think and struggle. So I think courage is above, it’s above religion, caste and creed. 

Jeff Johnson:
That’s great insight, Sri. Thank you. Okay, let’s get down to the question now, Serif, what is the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? 

Sarif Hossain:
Well now you asked the question that gets me distinction or not? And since I, I have been a distinction scholar, I really have to live up to this question. I, I could name, I could probably list down a hundred courageous acts that I had to take and at different stages of life, as a friend, as a brother, as a son, as an employer, as an employee, as expatriate, as, you know, as a patriot, I think there are many courages. But if I was to choose one courageous act, and I think everybody can connect with that is the most courageous act that I ever had to undertake, was to stand up against my loved ones, the people I love the most. So like I said that this was a family business for 70 years. 

Sarif Hossain:
It’s a 70 year old company and 60 years it was a joint family and a joint business. And there came a point where there was a conflict within the family and some tough choices had to be made. Where some tough personal choices, family choices and tough business choices had to be made. And for the sake of doing the right thing. When you have to stand up against the people you grew up with, the people you have spent festivals with, people you laughed with, the people you cried with, the people you know, who have been the closest to you since the time you’ve been born. And now you have to stand up against them. Because on a matter of principles, it differs. 

Sarif Hossain:
And to elaborate on it a little bit more, and not to leave it vague, it came to a point where the company’s future and the family’s future itself came under threat. And at that point, there was a decision to be made that, okay, it’s my uncle after all, or he’s my brother after all, so even though he’s wrong, why not side with it? And then I had to look at the other side of the story where There were around 150, 200,000 families whose life depended on that business. And my decision was to choose between 20 people and 200,000 people. And I had to choose those 200,000 people over these 20 people who I loved the most. And today we don’t meet or we don’t exchange messages, and it’s painful each day to think of that. Those memories don’t leave you. 

Sarif Hossain:
And deep down, I still, of course, you know, my uncle, my cousins, my brother, you know, you still have the same feelings for them. The feelings don’t change. The care and concern don’t change. So I think that has been the most courageous and the toughest act that I ever had to take is to stand up against the people I love so much. 

Jeff Johnson:
Wow. And it’s left, and it’s left a residual hurt because there’s distance in the family. Wow. 

Sarif Hossain:
Absolutely. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. 

Sarif Hossain:
And, and I think this, this is the place where faith really comes in a lot. I mean, if you really understand, if you really have the strength of faith, you’re able to overcome the fear and take the courageous act and whatever residual pain is there, you’re able to absorb it and you’re able to keep moving on and keep changing and find the silver lining in the horizon. 

Jeff Johnson:
But you took that step because you knew that it was the noble thing to do, it was the right thing to do for the betterment of number of people. It wasn’t a self indulgent, you know, selfish. It was betterment of the business. Yeah. 

Sarif Hossain:
In, in fact, taking this decision hurt my business. It hurt my family as well. Not just emotionally, but I would have been better off as a, you know, I’m a strategist, as you would be, we’ve discussed many a time. So from a strategic point of view or a business point of view, the wise decision would have been to not let the split happen. But it, even though it hurt the business, it Was it had no personal. I didn’t gain anything personally. Rather I lost emotionally, financially. There was a loss to myself, but I still had to do it because those 200,000 strangers would be affected. And I had to choose their future over the 20, you know, non strangers. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah, yeah. Wow. Well, that certainly is courage, Sharif. And you know what’s beautiful about that story, and I’m so grateful for you sharing it, is that will translate not only for people that run a business with 150,000 employees, which I don’t know how. I mean, that’s pretty rare error when you’re doing that, but it comes all the way down to interpersonal relationships and family even. You know, some. Sometimes decisions just have to be taken and try to build consensus, but you can’t do that. And so there is the courage right there. Somebody’s got to plant their feet and make a decision and deal with the repercussions. And maybe people being unhappy or disappointed or whatever it is, but it’s still pushing through for the betterment of everybody involved. 

Sarif Hossain:
Exactly. I mean it as you. As you said it, you summed it perfectly. It doesn’t apply to only me, a person running a hundred thousand or 150,000 people’s lives, even if you have one person depending on you, the act to choose the benefit of that one person over yours, that itself requires courage. So it applies to everyone. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah, totally. Now, after you took that decision, you said that it was financially, you know, a little painful. You took a hit because of that. But when you look back on that, in retrospect, what has that step of courage done for you as a man, as a business leader, as a family man, that sort of thing in the. 

Sarif Hossain:
Very first place, within my own self, it strengthened my dignity. It strengthened my sense of duty. And when you do the right thing, you don’t have to, you don’t have. You don’t expect rewards. Rewards automatically come to you because this is where again, it comes back to faith. Whether you have faith in God or destiny. But every courageous act that we take, no matter how painful it is, the. The medicine for it comes, the reward for it comes to you eventually. And yes, so today I do not have any regrets. If I had to take that decision again, I would do it all over again. Because it was the right thing to do. And even though it was painful in some ways, in a much broader sense, it gained the respect of all those people who. Who depended, who depend on this company. 

Sarif Hossain:
And it gave me. It gained me 200, 000 new family members, as in a simply way put, you know, I lost 20 family members, but I gained 200, 000 family members. So I think it’s a. It’s a personal joy. It’s that, it’s that sense of being, the sense of fulfillment. I think that’s. That’s the greatest reward for taking that act of courage. 

Jeff Johnson:
Oh, certainly, that’s great. Who, who represents courage to you? Who do you look up to as a courageous person, as an icon or an individual? 

Sarif Hossain:
Well, always in a very biased answer, it would be my, you know, I was. If I said it’s my father, it would be a very biased, you know, anyone would like. Oh, right, of course he would say it is his father. Definitely. Of course. My father has been my role model in this way. And he. It’s because of him that these acts made sense to me. From the act of giving my first speech to the act of taking up degree program at Oxford, also to the act of choosing, making that hard decision in the family business. So in all these acts, he was a very strong character, strong role of, you know, role model to me. But at the same time, I really think we do not take or we do not define our courage. Our courage cannot be defined by just one person. 

Sarif Hossain:
It’s defined by every single people that we come across. Because, you know, you, the way you are trying to reach out to people and give people inspiration through your podcast, that’s an act of courage, and that gives me inspiration and courage as well. And in our classroom, we have met 50 different people who had 50 different stories to tell. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. 

Sarif Hossain:
And each of them are worthy of being a model to us. So one side, yes, I. Let me. I’ll be a diplomatic in this answer. So I give 50% of my credit to my father and the rest of the 50 to all those people I have met in my lifetime. 

Jeff Johnson:
Wow, that’s a great answer. And I, and I totally agree. It’s everybody that you come into contact with. Really. I mean, isn’t that people inspire you with courage? Even if somebody is, dare I say, a bad example, somebody that didn’t take that step, you can learn a lot from that as well. 

Sarif Hossain:
Absolutely. 

Jeff Johnson:
Okay, so, Serif, maybe I’ll get you out of here. On this last question, you talked about when you were a young man and you’re going to the company meeting with 200 people and you’ve got the responsibility to go to the microphone and welcome everyone. Imagine your son is in the exact same role now with the courage that it took for you to Step through that fear and take that act and take the microphone and do what you needed to do. How would you encourage your son for the next generation when you have your hand on his shoulder and you’re ushering him up to the microphone, how do you prepare him to let him know that he’s got the courage to do it? 

Sarif Hossain:
You answered the question for me. So that very day when I stood up in front of the microphone to give my first ever speech, that hand on the shoulder, my father’s hand was on my shoulder when I started. And that itself communicated to me that, son, it doesn’t matter. You made a mistake. It’s okay. Get on with it. Get on with it. You can. You just need to finish it. And that is precisely what I would. I would do with my son. I will do with my son, hopefully, is that, you know, when I’ll gradually ease him onto it, obviously I won’t throw him under the bus in front of 200 people for sure. Maybe I’ll start with a lesser number. But, yes, I think it’s important to know that somebody’s got your back. 

Sarif Hossain:
And for me, on that day when I felt my father’s hand on my back, that itself gave me the strength to go on and finish it. And that is what is important for all of us, that, you know, no matter what journey we are on, we are all on different journeys. Somebody’s on a spiritual journey, professional journey, personal journey. We have struggles with family, struggles with work, struggle with career. It doesn’t matter what journey you are on. Just make sure you have someone who’s there to hold your hand. And that’s all that matters in the end. That’s all that takes you forward. And that’s what I would want to be. I would want to be that hand that’s holding my son’s hand. 

Jeff Johnson:
Oh, well said. Well said, Serif. Well, I love how you put it that, you know, that courageous act leads you to your destiny. So I met you at an. In an Oxford class, and were classmates. We met on the very first day and fell into this wonderful friendship. And now your courageous act of attending that class has led you to go back and teach. So you’ve got another. You’ve got another brave thing to do. Sarif, when you take the de ess and you actually pour out everything that you’ve learned to teach the next class, which is wonderful. I congratulate you for that. 

Sarif Hossain:
Thank you very much. I wish you didn’t take this class before. So I would have. I would have encouraged you to join this program doesn’t make sense for you to do it twice, but yes, you would. That, that has been, I think this has been a defining character of me, is I’ve always taken one step and then I never stopped thinking, what next? And this is the next big step that I’m about to embark on. And I think that is when any courageous step you take, any step you take in life, it makes it gives you a delight or gives you joy, is knowing that you pass on to someone else, you pass on that knowledge or that inspiration to someone else. 

Sarif Hossain:
So it’s all these years I have gained courage and now it’s time for me to give others courage as well and inspire others. So I’m about to embark on a new journey of transpiring. 

Jeff Johnson:
Siri, thank you so much for being on the podcast. 

Sarif Hossain:
Thank you so much. Jeff, thank you so much for having me. 

Outro:
Thank you for joining us today on Courageous. If you’d like to hear more about the work and ministry being done at Crossroads Apologetics, please visit our home on the web at crossroadsapologetics.org Would you or someone you know like to be featured on Courageous? Send us an email at info@crossroadsapologetics.com or info@crossroadsapologetics.org telling us about the most courageous thing you’ve ever done.