The Courageous Consultant: Mia Beshr’s Blend of Eastern Traditions and Western Education

Mia Beshr, a first-generation British citizen with a rich Egyptian heritage, joins us on the next episode of the Courageous Crossroads podcast. Mia brings a unique blend of Middle Eastern culture and British upbringing to her work as a project management consultant in the UK. She comes from what she describes as a semi-conservative Muslim background. Mia holds an undergraduate degree in Law and a master’s degree in International Management, with continued education in law and organizational leadership, equipping her with a profound understanding of global dynamics. Her education and experiences have shaped her into a well-educated and
courageous leader, making her insights invaluable to our discussion.

Thank you for listening! We hope you feel inspired and encouraged by our conversation today. If you did, be sure to share this episode with others.

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See you in the next episode! Be blessed!

Full Transcript

Intro:

Welcome to Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics, a look into what motivates us to step out in courage and the everyday bravery of men and women like you. In each episode, we hear a personal story of bravery centered around this question. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And now, your host, founder of Crossroads Apologetics, Jeff Johnson. 

Jeff Johnson:

Hey, everybody, this is Jeff. Welcome back to another episode of the Courageous Crossroads. These episodes just keep getting better and better, and this episode continues to raise the bar for us. Actually, this was recorded several months ago back in the uk. Again, another interview with a friend of mine at Oxford University, Maya Bescher. Maya is ethnically Egyptian. She’s going to tell you about that. And she has a really strong pedigree with education and a lot of wonderful life experiences. But more than that, she is a courageous woman and someone who really, really inspires. So I start off by asking her what she even thinks of the name of the podcast, the Courageous Crossroads. What did she think when she first heard about what it was that were doing here? So let’s jump in with Maya and be inspired. 

Jeff Johnson:

And thanks again for joining us. 

Mia Beshr:

I loved it because I don’t think that risk taking and doing something that requires courage is talked about enough industry, especially for women. I actually delivered a talk at the university in Bath, and my topic was risk taking for women in business and how beneficial it is for us and how we often put a ceiling on ourselves. Because as an example, men can see a job description that they only fit 40% of and go, why not? I’ll apply. Women will see a job description that they hit 80% of and go, I don’t meet that other 20%. I’m not even gonna try. And actually, that’s how I got my first promotion, is that my risk was I was like, why not? I’m not going to count myself out. And I got the job. 

Mia Beshr:

So I think risk taking and putting yourself in positions where you are uncomfortable is so key for new people entering any job. But just in general, for us in life, you look at the most successful people in the world in any industry, in any occupation, how did they get where they were? Because they took calculated risks, not just jumping into anything but risk and doing something courageous nonetheless. 

Jeff Johnson:

So I was. You’re leading me into this. I was going to ask you a question, how you relate fear and courage, but you’re already relating risk take. You’re defining courage as risk taking and that kind of thing. But how would you. How would you answer that question? How do you Relate fear and courage. 

Mia Beshr:

Fear is, I think it comes from the unknown. You’re not necessarily afraid of what you know is coming. You tend to be more afraid of the fact that you don’t know exactly what to expect. And I think that’s where courage comes in. It doesn’t take courage, in my opinion, to do something where you know what the guaranteed outcome is going to be. It takes courage where there is a risk of failure and a risk of a bad outcome, which thus results in fear. Because obviously you have something to lose in that. And that’s why it is courageous to then take the action forward. Because most people could look at that same situation and go, it’s not worth the cost benefit analysis for me, sorry, I hit the mic to go for that, but for someone else, they’ve gone, you know what? 

Mia Beshr:

I’m willing to take that risk and overcome the fear that I have associated with it. And that’s. And that’s where courage comes into it. 

Jeff Johnson:

Wonderful, wonderful. Okay, put this in context for me then. Say a little bit about your background and where you’re from and where we find you now, where are you working and what’s your career and that sort of thing. So give me a little snippet, a. 

Mia Beshr:

Little intro into me. So I am ethnically Egyptian. I, a first generation British citizen, come from a semi conservative Muslim background. So for my parents it was really important to have us all, not just like supervised, make sure that were following uni properly, you know, really focusing on our studies. They wanted all of us, me and my three younger brothers, all close to home and stuff like that, and they always protected us. I think that is definitely part of a Middle Eastern culture where, you know, you really look after, you have that strong family unit. And therefore I always felt like I had a safety net in essence, which was nice to feel like I could try something new because I know that I had my family to essentially catch me if I fell. And my parents supported me in doing a Master’s. 

Mia Beshr:

I went on to do. My undergrad is in law. I went on to do a master’s international management. 

Jeff Johnson:

Where did you do that? 

Mia Beshr:

My undergrad was in Swansea and then my master’s was at the University of Bath. And then after that I did the legal practice course at the University of Law in Bristol to qualify to be a solicitor if I wanted to, if I did a training contract. And then I really liked the area that I lived in, so I applied to any company. There wasn’t really much calculation in that. If I’m being honest. And I ended up in a defense company. So my first ever company was at Babcock in Bristol. And it was very interesting. That is where I actually made the decision that actually really propelled me in the rest of my career and was what I believe to be the first act of courage which has really cemented my opinion that risk taking is something that we should all do more of. 

Mia Beshr:

Because that was my first ever job fresh out of uni, didn’t have any other real work experience. And I told them at the interview, I really want to work internationally. And obviously, anyone hears a young mind talk about growth and they’re like, yeah, we love it. Of course, in the future you can. I took initiative and obviously as soon as I got in, I was like, right, let me ask around all of the different legal entities we have and subsidiaries in the Middle East. So I contacted Oman and. And they were like, yeah, of course we would. We do have partnership programs, but your company would have to pay for it. And that wasn’t something that Babcock and Bristol did at the time, so that didn’t qualify. And then through some connections, I found Babcock in the uae. 

Mia Beshr:

And I was like, hi, I speak Arabic. I would be really interested in doing a placement with you if you can offer it. And I actually started to gain traction. So I was really happy about that. I was like, wow, I’m only four months into my first ever job and I’ve got an interview with my company still, but, you know, but to go abroad. And I was met with not a friendly response at all. At all, really, because there were certain people very high up in the. In my legal entity, in my organization that felt that there were more prepared, more appropriate people to take such an opportunity than me. 

Mia Beshr:

So even though no one else had done the legwork to source the opportunity and no one else had taken initiative, the fact that I’d sourced it myself seemed to ruffle quite a lot of feathers. And I went to HR and I was like, I need to make sure that I’m above board here. If I am in the wrong, that’s absolutely fair. And they’re like, no, you haven’t done anything wrong. But I was approached multiple times to drop pursuing the opportunity and that people in positions of power were like, we’re going to email them and let them know that you’re no longer interested. And I would remember thinking to myself, if I’m not allowed, why can’t you just say that I’m not allowed? Why are you making it? Why Are you framing this like I’ve changed my mind? 

Mia Beshr:

And I was once taken into a room and told that if I want to work internationally that I can’t do it at Babcock. So I was like, wow, I’m about to get fired from my fifth ever job. Yeah, yeah. And then, and then not my line manager, but the level above my line manager at the time started keeping a very close eye on me and I had to call him if ever I was sick, which is not standard protocol. Really close eye on me. At the time I wasn’t allowed to go home early on a Friday like everyone else because Friday was a full working day according to him. So a lot changed and I actually looked for another job. I’d actually, even though I’d interview, you know, got the interview and the interview was amazing in London to go work in the uae. 

Mia Beshr:

I’d found another job because I was like, I’m not waiting to get fired. I was like, I can’t. And it was really interesting because back to this, and I used the gender stereotype incredibly loosely, right. Because it’s all personality based as well. My dad was very pro going. He was like, I’ll help you pay for it. You know, the experience of going and working out there at such a young age is so it’s incredible. Will really help you. And my mum one hand was like, you might lose your job, like if it’s causing this much trouble and you might get fired, maybe you should step back. And all of my female friends also had the same opinion. They really were against the idea of ruffling the feathers I was ruffling and stuff like that. 

Mia Beshr:

And I know that you’re a Christian so you will really resonate with me on this point. But it’s by the grace of God that for the job that I’d found that they took a while to get back to me on whether I’d gotten it. And it was that delay that resulted in me finding out that Babcock were going to let me go to the uae. So if I’d gotten that second offer sooner and I’d quit, I would have quit before I found out that I’d actually made it, that they, that the two Babcock subsidiaries had negotiated sufficiently enough that the UAE subsidiary was like, yeah, we’ll pay for her. Like, you don’t have to pick up the bill, we’ll pay for it completely. 

Jeff Johnson:

Wow. 

Mia Beshr:

So, so like I say, that was divine timing. 

Jeff Johnson:

That’s right. 

Mia Beshr:

Because it would have been a stab in the chest to leave and find out that I achieved it. 

Jeff Johnson:

Well, I was going to ask you how your faith informs your idea of courage, but you just said it right there. 

Mia Beshr:

I think you know, there’s a metaphor that we use, and it develops from a story from the time of the prophet of you put your trust in God, but you still tie your camel, so you still do the work. At the end of the day, God is the one that allows anything, positive or negative to happen. It’s under his will that everything occurs. But you still put in the effort. You don’t just pray that you’re going to pass your exam without studying. You don’t pray that you’re going to get the job interview without preparing and so on and so forth. So you put your trust in God that whatever is good for you, irrespective of what that is. Because you could think that something is good for you and it might not be. 

Mia Beshr:

And you could think that something is bad for you and it might not be. You don’t know that, only God does. So that’s where my idea of courage does, is that I do what I believe is the right thing for me. And I pray that God gives me what’s best for me in this life. If that is to get the opportunity that I’m going for, I hope that I get it sooner rather than later. But equally, if it’s not going to be good for me, and I just don’t know that yet, or maybe I won’t ever know that it’s not going to be good for me, I pray also to find out sooner rather than later, rather than obviously go through the longer period of wondering whether I’ve gotten it or not so that I can move on to the next opportunity. 

Jeff Johnson:

Yeah, that’s a great answer. I’ve heard it said that I’m going to pray like I’m not going to study, and then I’m going to study like I’m not going to pray. You know what I mean? Emphasizing both things. So I like the tiger camel. Here’s a question. In your opinion, who is a historical figure who exemplified courage and what do you learn from that? If you think about a historical figure? 

Mia Beshr:

Oh, that’s really interesting. Interesting as well, because obviously in you’re not taught history from across the world. You’re just taught history from your country, but also your country’s point of view. Because obviously every conflict and every historical action or situation had multiple points of view at the time. But they say history is written from the point of view of the Victors, Right. Not. Not necessarily the truth. 

Jeff Johnson:

Right. 

Mia Beshr:

But I, I think I would have to say it would be the suffragettes, I would say, or Malala Yousafzi. Yousafazi. Excuse me, I don’t know if I’ve pronounced that correctly because I think it’s really, really hard to disrupt the status quo when you’re in the position of weakness, I think. 

Jeff Johnson:

Okay, now tell our listeners who that is. 

Mia Beshr:

Malala Yousafansi. She was shot by the Taliban in Afghanistan just for going to school. And I think that for me shows such courage for so many reasons because it’s such an act of like, resilience and to rebel over fundamental right to education. You know, what you’re afraid of in allowing a young girl to be educated. And I think more so, as a Muslim woman who’s educated, that the, like, Islam was one of, or to my knowledge was the first religion that brought in the right of women to education and to work and to own property and stuff like that. It is, it is within the rules that we are taught and the rights of women to be able to have these things. 

Mia Beshr:

So I found it just what an act of courage to have a controlling organization like the Taliban that claim one thing, you know, because all of these terrorist organizations operate under this full spanner of following Islamic values, which. But then act in a completely contrary way to that. You can call yourself whatever you want. It doesn’t mean you are. I could call myself a goat. Does that make me a goat? No, you can call yourself Muslim. It doesn’t make you Muslim, you know, it’s your actions is what we are judged on and what informs who we are as people. So I felt like what she did was super courageous because you’re following in the rights that you are owed by your religion. It should be by your culture as well. But they’re two very different things, aren’t they? 

Mia Beshr:

You know, like, it doesn’t matter what religion you are. You go to every country in the world and you’ll find your religion slightly different. Like, for example, Christianity in Egypt, they have Christmas Day on the 8th of January, I believe, because they are Coptic Christians. But Christians in the UK have Christmas on the 25th of December. So it’s really interesting then how the country that you’re in and then the culture kind of informs slightly the version of religion that you follow. But that’s why I felt. Sorry, I’ve digressed slightly. But that’s why I felt like she is really courageous at her age, for her to be like These are my rights as a Muslim woman, and I’m not letting you take them away from me. And if that’s. And they responded by shooting her. 

Mia Beshr:

And I just thought, by the grace of God, obviously she survived. And then I just thought, I don’t know. What makes you think that response to a young girl going to school would make you look good or would show a lesson? People who overact with strength only show their weakness. If she wasn’t actually a threat to you wouldn’t have bothered responding like that. But the symbol of her deciding to be educated hurt you so much that’s the only response that you felt. 

Jeff Johnson:

And now you land at Heathrow and you see posters of her face inviting people to practice courage and stand up for their rights and everything. So that tells you what happens as a result of. It’s wonderful. 

Mia Beshr:

Absolutely. 

Jeff Johnson:

So the reason, Maya, of course, why we’re doing this podcast is because it’s to pull out the courageous aspects of everybody. And my firm belief is that everybody has done something that’s courageous. And I think there’s a lot of people that walk around and don’t necessarily recognize it. They think, well, I haven’t been brave and I haven’t been courageous. And it’s just not true. I mean, everybody has done something. So to get to the crux of it, I guess I would pose that question to you. I’m sure that you’ve got a long catalog of courageous activities. But I would say what comes to mind when I ask you the question, what’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? 

Mia Beshr:

I would say it was either the story about when I was with Babcock and I just continued to seek the opportunity to move abroad, or as the most recent one, I used to work at bae, another defence company, and I loved at bae, the first fantastic company. Couldn’t sing higher praise if I could think of the words. But I wasn’t content, and I couldn’t understand why. I didn’t know what it was about my situation. You know, I worked in, like, a really amazing project with amazing people, and after eight months, I was like, oh, I’m bored of this. I don’t know why. And then I wanted to work abroad. So I went and represented BAE at the first. First ever World Defense show in Saudi Arabia. And I was like, wow, that was amazing. That was really cool. But that’s not it either. 

Mia Beshr:

I don’t understand. And I actually just quit my job and went traveling. 

Jeff Johnson:

Oh. 

Mia Beshr:

I didn’t even take a gap year. I’ve never by myself. I’ve never been abroad by myself. And I was just like, you need to step away. What is it about myself that. Because clearly it’s not my work. I work with people that I love and I work for a company that whenever I said I wanted something new, they’ve helped me get it. So it’s not the circumstance that I’m in. I’m not dissatisfied with my job. It’s me and I. And I think something that people need to be more comfortable admitting, you need to be good with yourself, you need to be content within yourself if you’re going to be content outwardly in the world. And that’s something that I felt I needed to see, space to find. I’ve never traveled before outside of the Middle east or a little bit in Europe. 

Mia Beshr:

And so I went to Asia. I went to four countries in Asia in the space of five weeks. And I did so much more than I ever thought I could achieve. I climbed Mount Bator and watched the sunrise over Bali. And when I tell you there were so many points during that ascent, I was like, I’m not physically made for this. I was wearing shoes from pre mark and I was like, not hiking gear at all. I don’t like heights. So it was a good thing we climbed up in the dark because I don’t think I would have made it if I could see how far I could fall. And it was just outstanding. And I met people that had literally nothing, lived in the most humble residences that were the kindest, most hospitable people ever. 

Mia Beshr:

I walked around everything I went to but Thailand and Vietnam. I was walking around in the middle of the night looking for a 711 so I could buy bubble tea. Yeah. In a country where I didn’t speak the language and I didn’t know the culture, but nor once did I not feel safe. I think I can’t say that about the uk. There are parts of Bristol I wouldn’t walk in the middle of the night in London. There are so many parts of London, even during the day, you would have to have your wits about you. I’m sure in America it’s the same. Obviously state depends. But I’m sure there are parts where, you know, you wouldn’t want to. Sorry, I’m rambling. And I was like, wow, this is. This is what it’s about. 

Mia Beshr:

It’s about finding joy in the most base, in the most basic elements of life and being content with that. And then everything above that will be fulfilling. But I look at myself and I Go. Wow. I live in a two bedroom house I’m very fortunate to own because, you know, I made smart choices when I was younger and had good, thank God, good opportunities, you know, that I managed to seize. And I was like, why am I not grateful for that? I bought a new car this year that’s really good. I have a family that treat me better like that, treat me so good that my standards are so and so high for dating because I know what I’m worth. I have amazing friends that I can rely on at any time. 

Mia Beshr:

Why don’t I give thanks for that more to understand that anything above and beyond that is just a plus. We all look at everyone chasing jobs and stuff and I work in a very high stress industry now, but I love it because I know this isn’t what defines my life. And I think after I came back from traveling, I started my own company and I decided to become a private consultant. And then I realized, wow, it’s the control that, it’s the control of my life that I want. When you work for another organization, like I say, it’s all personality related. I’m not saying, you know, that if someone works for someone else that they’ve like sold their soul to the man or whatever. You know, for people with children or to pay a mortgage, stability is really important. 

Mia Beshr:

So, you know, to have a full time job where, you know, if you take sick or you take annual leave, you’ve still got pay coming in, that is really important for me. Thankfully I don’t have that concern at the moment. Not married, don’t have kids, very geographically mobile. So for me I was like, wow, I’m not asking anyone’s permission to not sign in the morning. I’m telling them I’m not coming in. I’m not asking anyone’s permission to have holiday. I’m going, I’m taking this many days off. And it was that shift of feeling I’m in control of my life and then that means that I have the control to go, you know what, my brother’s graduation next month, I’m taking as many days off as I want. Or my brother lives in Scotland. 

Mia Beshr:

I’m going to drive up with my new puppy to see him and not worry about how it’s going to look to my line manager of how many days I’ve taken off consecutively because I’m my line manager. 

Jeff Johnson:

The courage to be yourself. 

Mia Beshr:

Exactly. The courage to be yours. 

Jeff Johnson:

To be who God made you to be. 

Mia Beshr:

Exactly. 

Jeff Johnson:

Wonderful. Okay, last little question I want to ask you Absolutely. I want you to leave the listeners with some inspiration on how they can pull courage out of themselves. Because you heard me say, I think a lot of people think that they’re not courageous or they don’t know how to put their finger on it. So what would you say to people that feel that way, that they haven’t done anything courageous or bold, what kind of encouragement would you give them? 

Mia Beshr:

When was the last time that you felt uncomfortable? When was the last time that you felt out of place or you felt that you were maybe dumb for putting your hand up or not getting the right answer, or you were walking out in. Because that’s a really simple one. Right in class. That’s a really simple one. How much courage does it take to be in a room full of people and offer up answer that you don’t even know is correct? 

Jeff Johnson:

Right. That you don’t even know addresses the question. 

Mia Beshr:

Exactly. But how many times does that firsthand inspire and encourage courage with others? And that’s when we look at just every single day. Look at yourself and go. When you walk, when you see people dressed differently, people dressed in either religious clothing or more cultural clothing, if that’s you and you’re walking out, or when you talk about your values that maybe are not the same as the values of the community that you walk in, that’s courage. You being comfortable and being honest with who you are publicly, that’s not an easy thing to do in a society that tells you what to think. We are told we have free speech, which arguably, maybe we don’t. 

Mia Beshr:

But if you look at the media, they tell you the version of the story that’s okay to believe anything contrary to that tends to be argued with slightly or a lot. But I would just say anytime you’re in a situation where you go or you just feel a little bit unsettled, to continue your course is courage. And to know that even if people don’t say it, seeing you be yourself inspires and encourages other people to be themselves. How many times have you wished that someone else would do something so you could join them? How many times have you waited for someone else to put their hand up? 

Mia Beshr:

Or if someone’s shouting at a customer, the amount of times when I was younger that I used to go, I really wish that I’d stood up for the person at the counter, the girl making the coffee, she can’t stand up for herself. And now when I am the first person to stand up for the girl at the counter, how many people jump in after me, Right. And then you realize, wow, you know, it’s a shame that, you know, sometimes we need the encouragement or the courage of others to inform our courage. But it’s never to waste. 

Mia Beshr:

Just because it might not be acknowledged at the moment as something courageous by you or by someone else, don’t think for a second that doesn’t mean that it’s not so 100% believe in, I don’t know how to put this, I guess believe in your own right to dignity and authenticity and comfort and content and happiness, and that you have the right to those things, even if they’re not necessarily the same as the people around you, and that it’s really courageous to choose to stay true to those things. 

Jeff Johnson:

Well said. Well said, Maya. Thank you so much. 

Mia Beshr:

Thank you so much. It’s always a pleasure. Jeff.

Outro:

thank you for joining us today on courageous. If you’d like to hear more about the work and ministry being done at Crossroads Apologetics, please visit our home on the web@crossroadsapologetics.org Would you or someone you know like to be featured on Courageous? Send us an email at infocrossroadsapologetics.com or infocrossroadsapologetics.org telling us about the most courageous thing you’ve ever done.