Josh Roberts: When Success Collapsed and Courage Began

In this episode of Courageous Crossroads, host Jeff sits down with entrepreneur Josh Roberts to trace the unlikely path from a farm in rural Louisiana and a childhood of constant moving to building (and rebuilding) multiple businesses in Pennsylvania, including a land services company that scaled rapidly during the Marcellus boom and later ventures in pipeline inspection and talent solutions. Josh shares how what once looked like courage on the outside (risk-taking, nonstop work, big bets) eventually gave way to a deeper definition rooted in surrender and vulnerability after a 2018 collapse, when a major customer’s bankruptcy triggered financial freefall and forced him to confront who he’d become at home. He recounts a pivotal moment of dropping to his knees and turning his life over to God, the steady support of his wife Lauren, and the practices that now keep him grounded, including off-grid solo retreats marked by prayer, journaling, and fasting. Joshua Roberts is a Pittsburgh-based business owner and founder who has generated significant revenue across multiple companies, including USA Field Services and USA Talent Solutions, and co-owns My Salon Suite locations with Lauren; shaped by early entrepreneurship at the University of Missouri, an international MBA experience spanning London, Shanghai, and Dubai, and years living on the road, Josh now focuses on building with purpose, faith-forward leadership, and long-term impact.

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See you in the next episode! Be blessed!

Full Transcript

Announcer: Welcome to Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics, a look into what motivates us to step out and courage, and the everyday bravery of men and women like you. In each episode, we hear a personal story of bravery centered around this question. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And now your host, founder of Crossroads Apologetics, Jeff Johnson.

Jeff Johnson: Hey everybody, this is Jeff. Welcome back to another edition of the Courageous Crossroads Podcast. This one is an interview where I am responding to audience requests. Somebody asked for somebody that was born and raised in Louisiana, moved to Texas, moved back to Louisiana again, and then to Kansas City, and then went to college in Missouri, and then went and did master’s degree work overseas, and then came back to live in Pittsburgh. And I found him. I found Josh Roberts. You are going to absolutely love Josh. He is one of my dear friends, and he is somebody that I really admire and look up to a super successful businessman, and somebody that just has a light about him. And you’re going to find out why when you listen to his story and how he answers that question, what’s the most courageous thing he’s ever done? So without further ado, here is Josh Roberts.

Josh Roberts is my guest. I’m so tickled to have Josh. Josh and his wife Lauren are two of my favorite people in the history of the world, my wife and I. So anyway, I’m just so happy to have you on the program. Josh, thank you for joining the Courageous Crossroads today.

Josh Roberts: Yeah, thanks for having me Jeff. I think Lauren and I would agree. Thank you, and Danielle, have been amazing part of our lives. We have so much so much fun together. You know, we sort of met through our white people Christian network, and it’s been incredible. And we don’t see each other, but once a year, I know, but it doesn’t matter. Then as soon as we see each other, it’s just like the, the, the, the popularity and the chuckles just start, and it’s just the best. So, but some, some funny stories.

Jeff Johnson: Okay, so give our listeners a little bit of background on Josh Roberts, and I know you a little bit, but I don’t know you a lot of that. So this is going to be good like whatever you want to tell us.

Josh Roberts: Sure. So I was born and raised in Bozier, well born in Bozier city, Louisiana, 1983.

Jeff Johnson: Where’s that?

Josh Roberts: It’s northern part of Louisiana.

Jeff Johnson: Okay.

Josh Roberts: So Shreepord, if you’ve heard of Shreepord, that’s sort of another common city in Louisiana. But I grew up about an hour south there on a farm, just off Bethany Church Road in a little town called Fairview. Both my grandfather’s were entrepreneurs. So one owned a bar and the other built houses in our small town. And then my dad worked for the railroad and my mom was a stay at home mom, raising four boys, really four and a half boys, I also have a half brother as well. So it was loud, it was competitive, it was sort of chaos growing up. And my, it was sort of the, you know, before any technology really, and especially if there was any, we didn’t have access to it. It was sort of just go out and go out on the farm in the woods and play and that was my life.

And then we started moving around a lot, probably at the age of eight for me, went from Louisiana to Texas, back to Louisiana, then to Kansas City. And I think I finally added this up, by the time I was 35, I’d moved 17 times. My dad worked on the road sort of our entire childhood. So think, you know, it’s gone during the week, back on the weekends, on call 24-7. So that was just, that was sort of normal for us.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah, we didn’t, any different.

Josh Roberts: And sort of fast forward, just trying to give you some context here, but I was, I think it was my sophomore year in high school, my dad moved from Kansas City, back to Louisiana, for work, and my mom stayed with all of us boys in Kansas City, so that we could sort of finish high school. And when he left, we sort of lost our, our authority figure in the house, you know, and I think all my brothers except the oldest are about a year apart.

Jeff Johnson: So, and this wasn’t a separation of the marriage. This was just for…

Josh Roberts: That’s right. So the idea, the idea, at least my dad’s gonna move to Louisiana after we all graduate, four years ago, my brother was a freshman at that time, my youngest brother. Once we all graduated, then she was gonna move back to Louisiana. So that was the plan, right?

Jeff Johnson: Okay.

Josh Roberts: So, you know, we, so we’re sitting here with, you’ve got this house full of boys between the age of 15 and 19, right? With my mom. And we were, we were pretty good kids, but we gave my poor mom more than she could handle.

Jeff Johnson: Not that good, pretty good, but not that good. Okay, I get it.

Josh Roberts: We got into a lot of trouble during those years, right? So, and then sort of, you know, by the time my brother graduated, my parents sort of grew apart, and they ended up getting divorced my sophomore year college, but it wasn’t really, it wasn’t like a, you know, a bad divorce, but we all sort of stayed close, including my mom and my dad, and still are. But it just kind of, it is what it is, but it sort of shaped, shaped, you know, for sure.

Jeff Johnson: Did you see that comment? Did you see that comment along the, along the way with the moves from Louisiana to Texas to Louisiana to…

Josh Roberts: I didn’t at the time. That was sort of, I didn’t know anything, you know, sort of different. It really did shape like the moving. You sort of had to hit the reset button every time, right? With friends and just cult, even cultures, I would say to an extent, you know, and, and, and, and, and my dad was still traveling. He was still on the road during those periods, right? So, he was sort of, even when we moved, it was, you know, limited time. And then you think about it, there’s four boys, and limited time with my dad, there’s just, there’s always this, when he was there, it was sort of like this jockeying for attention, you know, as well.

So, it’s sort of, you know, just think, this is my, this is sort of how I grew up. But I don’t know that I ever stopped and thought about it. I think things were just sort of moving, you know. But I think that sort of wired something in me, I’ve been able to figure this out later on as I started to really think about it. If nothing around you really stays still, you start trying to create things that you can control, you know, like, for sure. That was what I started to do.

So, when I started later on building my companies, I sort of reflecting on it now, like I became exactly like my dad. You know, I, I was living out of hotels. I was gone all the time. I was on call 24-7, and I thought I was sort of building this life, you know. But I was actually just repeating the pattern that I had seen, you know, my entire life. And it sort of, you know, if we get, we maybe get into it later, but it was the sort of took everything fallen apart from you to see all of that, you know.

Jeff Johnson: Isn’t that interesting how we do that? We don’t know that we’re doing it. But then we slide right into that pattern, that’s like our father or sometimes like our mother, you know, but it’s just this, this thing that you’ve been immersed in, and that’s just the way you do it. It’s fascinating. Yeah. Were you close with your mom?

Josh Roberts: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. So you said jockeying for attention with your dad, were you close with your dad, or was that distance created because he was gone a lot, and then just the longing whenever he was around?

Josh Roberts: Yeah. I mean, I’ve thought a lot about it, Jeff, like in the moment, you know, once again, I don’t think you really know, but I, I think I had this perception that I was really close with my dad, right? Like that I always felt like we were close. Later on, we’re really close now. I mean, I talked to him, if not every day, every couple days. You know, we have a close relationship. It’s wonderful. But I think it was, yeah, I think it was sort of, the answer would be no, probably, right? No. That’s every flat back, right? And I feel like once I became an adult, we were able to sort of form a closer relationship.

Jeff Johnson: Okay, so you moved and where did you go to school?

Josh Roberts: Yeah, so I went to sort of, let’s say high school, and then I went to college. I was the first person in my family to go to college, graduate college. I went to the University of Missouri, so not far from you.

Jeff Johnson: Okay. Well done.

Josh Roberts: And that’s sort of where I got my first taste of entrepreneurship. I started a company called Green Mobile with a bunch of attorney brothers. And we did a sort of like, while I was in college, I was also the president of my fraternity, so I got some exposure to that leadership in a crazy sort of experience there as well. But we had, we did a million dollars in sales for locations.

Jeff Johnson: Wow.

Josh Roberts: A lot of fun learned a lot. We were basically refurbishing cell phones. And so then sort of after I graduated and ended up moving on from Green Mobile, we, for, you know, for a different day, you know, there’s a whole story behind that, but we ended up separating.

And I packed all my stuff into the back of my car and I moved back to Louisiana, where my brother was in working as a land man in the oil and gas industry for anybody that, yeah, either to see the show land man or knows what a land man is, that’s sort of what I became in the oil and gas industry. That was the start of me really hit doing this, living on the road. That’s really the lifestyle. I was living out of hotels, but I was learning a lot. I was learning grit. I was learning how to build relationships, how to sort of see the world through other people’s eyes, all those type of things that you need whenever you’re basically knocking on farmer’s doors, asking if you can build a ride away or help, you know, you’re gonna drill a well on their property. So I really, those were, at least now, those were the good old days, you know? I was a lot of fun.

Jeff Johnson: Now go back to college for me real quick, sorry to jump you back. You matriculated from the University of Missouri, what was your degree? You guys, yeah. You got a business degree.

Josh Roberts: Got a business degree, yeah. And I sort of, I didn’t major, I didn’t minor in economics, but economics is sort of where I loved, I loved numbers and I loved sort of the logic behind it and all of that and that’s where my focus was. And frankly, I loved all of it. I loved the marketing, you know, I loved just the entrepreneurship. But at the time, entrepreneurship wasn’t a, it wasn’t a channel that I could go into. At the school, but it was, I sort of got my fix from being an attorney and also building this company with that.

Jeff Johnson: It’s interesting that that just naturally happened to you at the University of Missouri. Was that, were you the catalyst for that or did you have a couple of fraternity brothers and you all kind of came up with the idea at the same time?

Josh Roberts: Yeah, there was one who sort of started it through eBay at first and then we, you know, I got brought in, we sort of like, and then it grew indigree mobile, right? And then there were, we started high, all of our first six, seven employees were all fraternity brothers. You know, so it was sort of like, I don’t know, some places like YPO, I think you’re sort of already or at third base with most of these people, right? You know, at least as much as you can within a year or two of knowing somebody in college, right? But you go through a lot in those experiences. So that was, that was a lot of fun. But and we were doing commercials on TV in our, you know, in Columbia, Missouri and it was, wow, it was a blast. And I learned a lot.

Jeff Johnson: Okay, so now, so you got out of that and then you went to become a landman with your brother. You did that, living in hotels.

Josh Roberts: Yeah, I, so that was all the way up until we’re at about 2009. The old and gas industry tanked at that time. And I sort of had a, semi long term relationship at that time, I was living in state, not in Colorado.

Jeff Johnson: Okay.

Josh Roberts: And my girlfriend at the time was going to school. It’s Colorado State. And we sort of separated and I was at this crossroads. And I was at the crossroads. All the gas tank, the landman industry sort of dry and up right now. I’m single. What the heck am I going to do? You know, and I’d saved up enough money at that time and started looking into MBA schools. But I didn’t want to just do any MBA school. It wasn’t like I was going to go to CSU or anything. I was like, I’m going to go study abroad. That was my goal. I want to get out of the country and like, this might be the last chance that I’m going to be able to do. It might be the last chance that I have to just be solo and go on an adventure.

So I applied for an international MBA program, did all the tests, got accepted, booked the one way ticket to London.

Jeff Johnson: Okay.

Josh Roberts: And studied in London, Shanghai, and Dubai. It was an accelerated MBA program. So I was able to do it just over a year. There were 70 students in my class in London, 30 different nationalities. It was also the first time I’d ever left the country. So I’m like this Louisiana country boy really at heart, you know. And I’m going out.

Jeff Johnson: You’re getting such phenomenal experience being exposed to these cultures and studying. Yeah, that’s a man. See, your story already, Josh, this is why everybody in the world needs to have a podcast. See how interesting people are. This is absolutely fascinating. What you’ve done, and now you’re just getting an MBA, but that exposure I would imagine really lit you up.

Josh Roberts: It was one of the best years, if not the best year. You know, it’s hard to compare, but it was the growth that I experienced in that little over a year was unbelievable. I do think sort of the moving around a lot helped getting sort of dropped into a new place.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Josh Roberts: And I started out in London intentionally, because at least they spoke English, some, you know, version of English, right? And then you get to the Shanghai where there’s none of that and Dubai a little bit, but it was, it was, it was, it was amazing. And at that time, I had had some experience in business, I had some experience sort of working out on the road. And I think part of the MBA program is you need, you have to come in with experience. It was a, it was a case study method.

Jeff Johnson: Sure.

Josh Roberts: It, it was so, so cool to be able to do. And I was all in, right? So everything I was learning, probably different than my undergrad, I was all in. You know, I was all in on everything that was going on in the classes. So, wow.

Jeff Johnson: And your, your cohort, you said, had 70 students in it. And they traveled around with you, correct?

Josh Roberts: Yeah. That same 70 in London and Shanghai and Dubai and… Sort of. So just think maybe there was a hundred and there was, and there was also a location in Boston, okay? So Boston, London, Shanghai and Dubai at that time was for it. You could rotate to any four of those locations. So each location when you started out was sort of your, your home base and you stayed there more, more than you did the other two locations. So think, you know, seven months, three, four months, three, four months, sort of that cadence.

So this, most of the people I was with in London, or say half of them went to Shanghai, the other half, you know, a lot of people in Europe and Asia and Africa, they wanted to go to Boston. Like that’s where they wanted to go. I didn’t want to go to near Boston, you know. So there was some movement around. I had, but even in Shanghai, there was a new group that came in. Some people that already knew same thing in Dubai, right?

Jeff Johnson: Right.

Josh Roberts: Some people were on the same rotation as I was and then I just sort of mixed in through there. So that added another layer of…

Jeff Johnson: Sort of.

Josh Roberts: Experience. For sure. OK.

Jeff Johnson: So then what do you do after the MBA?

Josh Roberts: So I… I didn’t use to tell it this way, but it is true. I, I remember being in Dubai. I, at that point, I, you know, I paid for everything pretty much myself, you know, I’d saved enough money to be able to do it. And I, and also during that time period, anytime we didn’t have class or there was a long weekend, we were on the, we were traveling, we traveled in the world. You know, like…

Jeff Johnson: Got to go to Egypt, got to go to, you know, all these cool places in the meantime, because all the people from there, you know, they wanted to show us their hometowns, right? So we got to go do that.

Josh Roberts: But anyway, so I bottom line, I spent every dollar that I had. And I remember calling my dad and I said, Dad, the news and bad news. Good news is I’m coming home. The bad news is I don’t think I have enough money.

Jeff Johnson: Take it. Take it.

Josh Roberts: So I sort of made it back home and just, you know, completely different lens of the world at that point. I came back. That’s when I landed in Pittsburgh. This was, you know, around 2010, 2011. I had this MBA, but I went right back into being a landman. I, I sort of… I had worked on another small business with, uh, with one of my MBA colleagues.

Jeff Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Josh Roberts: And he was from London and we just sort of, we worked on it for a few months after we graduated, but we just couldn’t, we couldn’t raise the money, uh, to get it off the ground. So I said, all right, I’m going to fall back to Laman. And it was right at the time in Pennsylvania for those that are familiar, sort of the Marcellus Udica boom was starting to happen.

So I took a job. I’ve never been to Pennsylvania before dropped in here. In like late 2010, uh, two years later, I was starting a land company. So that was my first sort of company after, after removal and that, that land company grew into a construction company into timber clearing, into inspection company. And we went from zero to 30 million and about five, five years, five and a half, six years.

Jeff Johnson: Wow.

Josh Roberts: And it was a, it was a wild ride. I’d sort of been able to take all of that. I had learned up to that point. And then it was just like rocket fuel, you know, okay.

Jeff Johnson: Now stop. Now I have to ask you a very personal question about business, Josh, and you don’t have to answer this if you don’t want to. But I’m asking it anyway, was that were you zero to 30 million, like a rocket ship? Was that, uh, right place at the right time? When was that market driven? Or was that it was just a good idea? And you really had the education and the experience in your back pocket to step on the gas and make it grow. Which one wasn’t? Hmm.

Josh Roberts: Uh, I know it’s not that, you know, it’s a little bit of a combination of all of those. Sure. Sure. Combination of everything. Uh, I do, I do think time is, is huge. Uh, mind you, I think I had so much built up energy and knowledge at that time that it was just ready to, I was just ready to take it so you like to do something with it. I also had some partners at that time too. So I didn’t do it on my own. Yeah. I had partners and over the years, partners left or bought out and there were some transitions, but, uh, so both ends.

Jeff Johnson: So you’re fired up and you’re ready to make smart decisions. And it wasn’t a bad place to be starting a business like that either. Right.

Josh Roberts: Yeah. It was. Right. The timing for that type of business in Pittsburgh, in the Pittsburgh area was perfect. Yeah. It was, it was really good. It was sort of just all systems go. And so we need a higher 10p, we need a higher 20 more people, we need a higher 10. And so I was able to just hop on the rollercoaster ride and, and, and that gasoline to it. So, okay.

Jeff Johnson: So I’m going to come back and address some questions on courage about what it is that you’re talking about and what you migrated, even back to the family stuff and everything because I feel like there’s, there are probably a lot of courageous markers all the way along the way. But take us through that business now. Get us up to date.

Josh Roberts: Get you up to date. So now I, I’ll save some of this story for that question. Probably. Okay. We’ll just say in 2018, everything sort of tanked. I had to, I hit the reset button. No. But I was able to sort of start over. And today I run two companies out of Pittsburgh, one is USA Field Services, we do third party inspection for pipelines and still that oil and gas sort of background. And then USA talent solutions is my consulting and talent company. Mostly focused in the Northeast, although we’re in about 18 different states. Done about see 150 million in revenue from this sort of reset moment in the life of those in the life of those businesses.

Wow. I also own my salon suite locations, one here in Pittsburgh, one in Altoona, which is sort of middle of the state. And, and I’m working on, and I’m crazy Jeff. This is, you know, I need this. Why I love, I need things like EOS if you’re familiar with EOS attraction. Like, I need my integrator to keep me sane. You know, I’ll bring, I’ll bring 10 things to the, to the table. We need to pick two, not all that. But I’m also building something new sort of in the skilled labor space that I’m really, really fired up about that I, that isn’t necessarily public right now. But it’s, it’s just think, you know, a platform for skilled labor. But that’s, that’s where that’s where we get that’s fantastic.

Jeff Johnson: Okay, family, wife, kids.

Josh Roberts: Yeah. Did I, man, I skipped over that. I, so I know now’s the time for it. When I, when I came, when I landed in Pittsburgh and I was living on the road, I, I met Lauren and guess it would have been 2011. Sort of it, 2011. We went on our first date in September of 2011. We got married in 2016. And we had Quinn, our daughter, who’s now eight in November of 2018. We were, I was sort of out in state college. She was going to school at state college. I was living out of the hotel that she happened to also be working at at the time. That’s how we met and then moved back to Pittsburgh and, you know, unlike my, you know, me growing up and moving around everywhere. We finally were, we’ve been in the same house for 11 years now. Old, different world now. Staying still and you and, and I’d say happily married, Jeff, we, we really do have a, a great relationship and we’ve been through a lot. We’ve been through a lot.

Jeff Johnson: But you guys are radioactive with your happy marriage, Josh, for, for those of you listening, you know those relationships, you know, when you meet those people that have, that have been married for a little while or for however long they have these old souls that are intertwined with each other and Josh and Lauren are, are like that. And it’s just a joy to be around you guys. So yeah.

Okay. Well, that’s, that’s an amazing story, Josh. Do you feel like, do you feel like you’ve covered a lot of ground?

Josh Roberts: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah, what I mean in your life, like do you feel like, because when you hear that, when somebody who hears that and that’s brand new to me, a lot of those elements are, that feels like you’ve covered an awful lot of ground in your, in your life.

Josh Roberts: Yeah, I’ve felt exhausted at times, right? Just in that, but I don’t know anything different either, right? So it’s, yeah. Yeah, I do, I think there was a moment when I started to experience it and maybe it plays into your question a little bit where I just sort of wanted to go to the grocery store and recognize somebody, you know, and like, what’s up, what’s up, Bob? You know, like, we’ve known each other for six to seven years, you know, like, go to the, you know, whatever it is. And I didn’t have that really for, for my entire life, you know, I would, I still have friends from each stage that I still stay connected with, but it wasn’t like I’m not the person that went to, you know, have the same friends that I had in, in grade school all the way up through, it’s just, it just didn’t get that experience.

And so in the last 10, 11 years being here in Pittsburgh, now I’m experiencing that. And I really do, I mean, it’s, it’s a, there’s pros and cons to both, but I really do love that aspect and sort of building longer term relationships with something I think I was missing.

Jeff Johnson: You’re known now. You can walk into a room and people, Josh, there’s Josh. So, um, are you close with your brothers?

Josh Roberts: Really close with my brothers. Yeah. And they’re doing well. Are they scattered around, scattered around, you know, shocking, right? Like ones in Detroit, one was in Colorado, just moved back to Kansas City. My mom’s in Kansas City, close to my youngest brother, shocking, right, closest to the youngest. Right. And then my brother, who’s a year older than me lives in Louisiana, half brothers in Arkansas, my dad’s still in Louisiana, also close to, to one of my brothers. So we’re, yeah, we’re all over the place.

Jeff Johnson: Wow. That’s fantastic.

Josh Roberts: We’re really close. We, we do a lot of annual trips, hunting trips and float trips, you know, we alternate Christmas. Still, we, we’re still really close. And I think a lot of that had to do with moving around a lot as well, right? We, we sort of were each other’s best friends. We sort of had to be, right? And when we moved to a new city, it was like, we were the least, at least we had each other to sort of navigate all the change a bunch of boys. Yeah. Um, we fight like brothers would fight too, you know, with no doubt. But we, yeah.

Jeff Johnson: Is the, is the barbecue different in Kansas City, Kansas City and Texas and Louisiana? Is it distinct in all three of those locations?

Josh Roberts: Yeah. Your Louisiana cuisine is like one of my favorite, but I also am barbecue guy. And so I know Kansas City, but you’re, so you do, you have three different types of barbecue. Yeah. And, and I would say in Louisiana, it was much more the southern sort of Creole is what I grew up. You know, not as, the barbecue, but it was a lot of, you know, crawfish and net to pay and jumble, and all of that stuff that I’m just like a moful at a moful at every once wild, I didn’t hurt you. Yeah. That was, I do miss that, you know, and I hear in Pittsburgh. It’s a different, there’s no barbecue.

Jeff Johnson: That’s it. That’s it. It doesn’t really. What’s the Pittsburgh cuisine? Uh, what would be a distinct Pittsburgh? I don’t know. I mean, it’s sort of Polish. Uh, it’s okay. Uh, a lot of sour crowd and fries on your salad and fries on your sandwiches, you know, it’s a mix of everything. I don’t know that they have a specialty. I think, you know, the story that I hear on how these, uh, sort of sandwiches came about in Pittsburgh is, you know, think old still town, old coal town and the, the, the, the, the mostly men would come back and they didn’t have, you know, they’d have a lot of time to eat, right?

Right. Uh, so there wasn’t like a mix that they had to put all of their nutrients onto one, one sandwich and they would just eat that. And that would be, you know, that would be the thing. Right. So that’s sort of the Pittsburgh staple. Just put it all between two slice bread.

Jeff Johnson: So I’ll never put it…

Josh Roberts: Yeah, it’s all of it. All of it. Well, if you order a salad and you don’t want fries on your salad, you have to order it without fries.

Jeff Johnson: Josh, why are we talking about this? But now I’m really curious. Why would you put fries on a salad?

Josh Roberts: I still haven’t, I’ve been here 11 years. I have no idea. Yeah. Is it a comment like different restaurants, the fries go right on the salad. I’m telling you, you have to order it without it comes with it automatically. Yeah. It’s part of the salad.

Jeff Johnson: Josh, some’s got to be done. Things got to change.

Josh Roberts: I remember the first few times I ordered and they put fries. I’m like, I’m like, I didn’t order fries on my salad. I don’t like me. I don’t order without it. So yeah.

Jeff Johnson: Well, that takes a certain amount of courage to just to embrace the different cuisines. But let’s get down to that topic. So now I want to ask you how you define courage. We’re going to work up to that question. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? But I’m curious. What’s the, what’s the Josh Roberts definition of courage? How would you describe that?

Josh Roberts: Yeah. It’s a, um, as I’m thinking about sort of life experiences. I think there are a couple different versions. And I, my definition is, it’s probably more around sacrifice and vulnerability. Okay. You know, I think the other sort of current might, I have two versions. I think I lived, I lived through, you know, the one is just, it’s, it’s, it’s built on a adrenaline, right? And, and risk taking, right? And the other sort of version is, is the exact opposite, right? It’s, it’s surrendering and being vulnerable.

Jeff Johnson: So surrendering and being vulnerable, I think that captures it. Very, very, very well. Who do you, if you think about courage as a quality, does somebody come to mind? I mean, are there people that you have in your life or historical figures or somebody that you think that’s a courageous person?

Josh Roberts: You know, I think I would probably like close in my life and my family. I would probably put sort of the women in my life, my mom and my wife. You know, I think are, are sort of come to mind right off the bat. Uh, you know, I gave you a little flavor of it before, you know, my mom would, four boys and, and battling through that and not just, you know, you, I can’t imagine that.

Jeff Johnson: Very easy. Just go, boom, just, yeah, stage left. I’m out. I can’t imagine that’s not immersed in courage.

Josh Roberts: Yeah. And that is sort of what I, as I define it, you know, it’s the, um, sacrifice surrender courage, you know, that fits the description.

Jeff Johnson: That fits it very well. Um, okay, well, I want to jump right in and ask you the question. Then Josh Roberts, what’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done?

Josh Roberts: I think, you know, here in my story, and you sort of talked about, I think most people would expect me to talk about all the business stuff, right? The business move, the one way to get to, to my MBA, uh, starting companies from nothing, all that stuff, going a year without a paycheck. Uh, I think they sort of look courageous on the outside. And that was my version of courage, um, for a long time.

But like I said, I think they were, it was more adrenaline. It was probably way more ego and encourage, uh, it was sort of a young guy who was just good at building things at that time and thought that that meant that I was also good at building a good, you know, being good at life. Um, as I said, when I, when I met Lauren in 2011, um, it sort of went from zero to 30 million, uh, Lauren sort of got a front row seat to the version of me that was winning it business, but losing it, everything else. Uh, I was sort of gone all the time, like I said, I was, at that time, I was also drinking heavily, uh, running on fumes, sort of holding it all together. It felt like a describe sort of thought of it described as like a, uh, fighter jet duct taped on the bottom, you know, one crack away from falling apart. Um, and, you know, Lauren had a front row seat to that version of me, right? And, uh, she married an entrepreneur, but I don’t, you know, she didn’t sign up for a ghost and that’s what, that’s really what I was.

And then in 2018, my largest customer at that time, filed chapter 11 bankruptcy. And three and a half million dollars went with them. And I didn’t have, you know, sort of bootstrapped everything. I didn’t have the, the, the back, you know, the, the, either dad or somebody behind me, that was going to like, you know, pull me out of that. So overnight, everything I’d built collapsed, uh, I went a full year without a paycheck.

Jeff Johnson: Uh, what year was that?

Josh Roberts: It’s just 2018.

Jeff Johnson: 2018.

Josh Roberts: And I had had, you know, at that time, it was sort of the combination of five businesses. I sort of had to sell, slash exit four businesses just to survive. And I was at that time, you know, before that, I was riding pretty high. Josh was riding pretty high, you know, especially in my mind. I was, I was, you know, top of the world, right? Uh, this was like the American dream I was living.

Jeff Johnson: Things are going good. This is so easy.

Josh Roberts: Yeah. That’s like nothing can go wrong. Um, but that’s when I started to really feel like a complete failure.

Josh Roberts: You know, it was, uh, as a leader, as a provider for my family, as a husband, as a dad as well at this point in time, I’m going to, you know, brand new baby. Uh, so that’s sort of where I think Lord comes in. You know, I mentioned her before, uh, on sort of courage and, you know, she could have said, I told you so, or, you know, she could have walked away. She probably had every reason to it at that time. But instead, she stayed, uh, she didn’t just stay. She really sort of held our family together, uh, while I was falling apart. And so I think that took a lot of courage. Uh, more, more than anything I had ever done.

Um, I think for me, probably the most courageous, courageous moment of my life was sort of during that time. I remember I was upstairs. I, I just got up, I just got up a call. I remember sort of the phone still being worn from the sort of my worst nightmare, you know, everything it was happening. Everything was falling apart. Uh, I went up to Lawrence, you know, her office on our third floor of our house. It was late at night. Uh, and I was done. I, uh, sort of done pretending done performing, you know, uh, done trying to be my own God. And at that moment is when I sort of, I remember I dropped my knees on the carpet. I can still, I mean, I can close my eyes and, and I can see myself in that moment and I can feel the carpet on my knees.

And that’s when I surrendered. And I just, uh, I’m not negotiating anymore. All up up to that point, if there was any sort of communication with God, it was a lot around negotiating and, and I’ll do this. If you do that, you know, sort of think.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Josh Roberts: And, you know, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was a lot of things. It was a real surrender at that point. I, I can’t do it. I’m done pretending and I, so it’s in your hands now to please just take a, you know, I can’t do this anymore. Uh, and I, I think at that time, Lauren didn’t really try to fix me or coach me or give me a pep talk. She’s a sat down, put her arms around me, uh, and just sort of held me there while I sort of just broke down, you know, and, uh, I want, like I said, I think that’s sort of its own version of courage as well, but sort of holding somebody when they’re, when they’re falling apart and trusting that God is going to put it all back together, you know, and, uh, and probably it’s going to look a lot different than it did before.

But, you know, as I sort of was, was thinking about this, you know, I, I only recently, sort of took myself back to that little kid and Bethany Church Road, you know, I was, I was baptized at five years old, right? Back in Louisiana, we sort of grew up in the church, but somewhere between all those moves and sort of the fraternity house and the business, I drifted a long way from that, from that little kid who, you know, was baptized at five. So I think this wasn’t really me finding God for the first time. There were a lot of Godwinks along the way through every one of those stages as I look back and I’ve tried to, you know, sort of go back and document those he was there. He was trying to get my attention. I just wasn’t paying attention, you know, um, so I think this was sort of me coming, coming home and it was, uh, I think that’s maybe even harder because I couldn’t really claim ignorance, you know, but, uh, I sort of knew what I walked away from.

But after that night, I mean, I know your believer, Jeff, like, so this is not telling anything you don’t know, but everything changed. I sort of, I made a commitment to make Jesus the CEO of my company because I was, I literally started from scratch again. But more importantly, I made them CEO of my life. I’m like, it’s yours now. I’m done. I tried. I failed.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Josh Roberts: So, uh, I went as far to put in God we trust as my tagline for the company. Like, this is what we’re doing here, you know, I love it. So yeah, I stopped, I stopped chasing, I think it was, I mean, I was chasing success. I was chasing attention. It’s probably that little kid trying to get attention from his dad, you know, like it was sort of just all of that built in, uh, and then started chasing significance and, and, uh, and I let God sort of rebuild everything and it’s not the way I would have done it, but it’s way better.

Jeff Johnson: That kind of brokenness, it’s such a beautiful story, Josh, and thank you for sharing that with us. I mean, that kind of coming to the end of yourself and having that be the most courageous thing of saying, I got no more options. And so just drop into your knees. Do you think, do you think people, because, um, I don’t want to say everybody’s made a record their life. I would say 99.9% of everybody is made a, at some point or not, you know what I mean? We all test that postulate. Am I God or not? You know what I mean? Yeah, and then we find out that we’re not, but is it a necessary thing to hit that kind of bottom to turn things around or can you do it without it?

Josh Roberts: It’s a great question. I don’t. I’ve heard stories and I hear testimonies of people that don’t necessarily have to hit bottom to be able to sort of surrender, right? But, but I also, you know, I think you and you and Danielle sort of know it’s a little bit, but, you know, this is the, that’s just not a one time story either, right? It, it, it sort of…

Jeff Johnson: It’s not just a third or moment. It’s, it’s continuous, right?

Josh Roberts: Yeah, it’s, it’s a daily choice that I have to make. And I would, I would bet that a lot of people, I mean, I can only speak for myself, but a lot of people do have to go through some that sort of rock bottom moment to surrender, because our egos are very, very powerful. They’re very powerful. It’s sort of that’s surrendering to your ego, you know, dying to self is very, very, it’s like it goes against sort of our survival instincts, right?

Jeff Johnson: And it’s interesting, because the Bible says, you know, we learn over and over again in the scripture that God judges the heart. So you can’t con him either, you know, you can’t do something really bad and then hit your knees and go, wow, I’m really sorry. And have him go, oh, yeah, I guess you aren’t. No, I mean, it’s when it’s when it’s when you’re absolutely shredded. And you’ve got that desperate, Lord, please forgive me. I need help right now. And he knows it, it, you can’t fake that. I mean, it really does change you, doesn’t it, Josh?

Josh Roberts: Yeah, it does. Yeah, for sure.

Jeff Johnson: So going through that, going through that experience then, are you out of it or are you coming out of it? Or where would you say you’re at in the continuum of that?

Josh Roberts: Sure. So I mean, in terms of trusting, like I’m out of the, I’m out of jail, right? I’m out of being handcuffed to that part. I’m out.

Jeff Johnson: Right.

Josh Roberts: So yes. And sort of if you’re asking more sort of the business and that side, I, you know, we, it’s funny how God, you know, there’s so much. I’m a believe in symbolism. You know, I’m a big symbolic guy too. I think there are winks everywhere and sort of God speaking to us all the time. But in the next, but you know, from that moment up until, um, this recently went from zero to 30 million again, you know, and so it’s, and it’s been a roller coaster, but this time around, I just, it’s not about me. It’s not about like it’s, I say it’s in God’s hands, for good or about or whatever happens, I’m good.

And we’re doing it for a different reason now. We’re doing it for, for sort of impact and kingdom impact and, and, and changing people’s lives. And it’s sort of, I’m not going to say easier, but it’s sort of, you know, it’s a little bit easier, you know, having them as the CEO makes, makes everything a little bit easier.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Josh Roberts: And we’re just in a great place. I feel like my, you know, when I, when I made that switch, it also impacted who I surrounded myself with. Right. I had to, I sort of had to get rid of a lot of things that were around me that were a part of the problem. Right. And so then I started surrounding myself with better people. And I, when I, when I, when I focused on the business with a better foundation, it’s just been a, it’s been a whole different rocket ship. Right. On this, this year, 30. And I think we’re just getting started. I mean, I’ve still gone through all the startup stuff that you have to go through. Right. But I had, had a lot of scars and lessons learned this time around.

Jeff Johnson: So, so I want to ask you about this, Josh, we’re not done. We’re getting close, but, um, time flies. So I had us been so wonderful. So I had a professor, John Lennox, that I got to sit under for a season. And he’s over at Oxford University smart, smart, smart. I think he’s the highest tenured professor at Oxford University’s at Green Templeton. And, um, he told me that you should not trust reason and use God. He said, Jeff, you got that backwards. You need to trust God and then use reason.

So it’s not that God hasn’t given us a beautiful brain to work through all kinds of issues with, you know, and fully engage. You know, it’s kind of like that idea of me and God are in the boat, but God doesn’t row. You know what I mean? I’m the one that’s got to pick up the paddles. But if I, if I trust reason and use God, I would look at a business opportunity and go, this makes so much sense to me. I haven’t prayed about it. I haven’t asked God, but it’s just so obvious, Lord. And then I hit my knees and go, please let it work out. Please let it work out. Please let it work out. And it never works out. You know, it’s a good nightmare.

But instead when I sit quiet and I’m like, okay, God, this is your deal. You know, and then he gives me an idea or gives me a motivation or gives me some kind of a direction points me in some kind of a direction. And then I say, okay, and then I engage my brain and I put together the strategic plan to do the thing that he just told me to do. That’s when things seem to work out correctly. And Josh, what you’re describing to me sounds exactly like that. It sounds like that’s what happened when you hit your knees. Am I leading you too much?

Josh Roberts: That’s no 100% it was exactly right. And then that’s where I’ve said like all the miracles started happening. And I just followed. I just followed at that point. I was like, okay, this is what we’re doing. You know, the first the USA talent was scratched on the back of an app can. Right. Like with with after I’m just like, I’m going to sit here and listen to you tell me what to do and sort of people that I didn’t expect started to come into my life. And I was like, okay, I hear you.

I see you know, I started doing solo retreats and those to me have been phenomenal. Just in the middle of the woods by myself, no service off the grid. And that’s where the like my connect I feel like it’s like it’s like a portal for me. You know, and just my like the connection is phenomenal.

Jeff Johnson: That was a God idea for you. The Lord was telling you to go on a solo retreat. Is that where you got that?

Josh Roberts: Oh, yeah, I started. Yeah, I did. I did it. Actually, yeah, through a few different connections. It shouldn’t say randomly. I mean, it’s when I started to get into the Christian fellowship network too, right? About that same time, not by coincidence, right? I’m like, I remember the first time I saw I’m like, wait a second. There’s a Christian fellowship network. That didn’t even exist in my world. But you know, probably. Yeah. And then you start to you surround yourself with people that are sort of in your ideas and God is sort of speaking to you through them.

And yeah, I did my solo retreat. And now I do four a year. And it’s, and even Lauren knows it. If she starts, she senses it most of the time before I do. And she says, Josh, it’s that time you need to go have you need to go have your meeting with your father, you know, go talk to your dad.

Jeff Johnson: Give us a glimpse at what what that looks like. Don’t let us intrude too much in your personal space. But give us a little bit of an outline of what that looks like. Somebody else might be motivated one to do that.

Josh Roberts: Yeah, it’s for me. How I landed there is well, it’s maybe a story for a different time, but it’s it’s about two of the place I go. 99.9% of the time is a place called Abrams Creek. Shocking, right? I didn’t even realize the symbolism in that until later on, a good friend of ours. I’m not keel who I was talking to about these like wait a second time. I’m free. Josh. That sounds like a God kind of a. I’m like, I’m old. I even went and spent time with them, and I didn’t even realize that.

And that’s, you know, Scott’s also symbolic and I we sort of connect at that level. So two and a half hours away so far enough to wear, you know, for me at least it’s like it is I have to intentionally go there. And I’m going to treat their little cabin, you don’t I mean you like plug in a little battery just to get lights but there’s no, you, no plumbing. Off the grid. I sort of love the fact that they that you can’t get Wi-Fi you can’t get there’s no service and it’s your most of the time I’m there it’s there on this. There might be called several cabins and some and then some primitive sort of campsites, but it’s you a lot of times I’ve been the only one there. and this entire campsite, you know, other times there’s been people but so that’s sort of the setting.

I bring a backpack, I bring my Bible, I bring some sort of books, mostly Christian books, you know, that are, I’m inspired by it that time, and I bring a notebook, and it’s, and I most of the time, I show up, and I just, the first thing I do before I do anything is I just get on my knees and start praying, and, uh, and then sort of God just takes over, right? He just takes over that experience. It sort of feels like sometimes time is paused, and I’ve even felt like that’s happened. I mean, it’s very, it’s hard to explain, but it just sort of pauses and, and then he takes me on a journey, whatever that is for that.

There’s typically, I’ve gone in sometimes where, you know, sort of that moment where it learns like you need to go. There’s something specific I need to talk to God about, right? And, and there’s been other times, I think the last time I went was my set of time, that was also symbolic, where I don’t have anything, and I’m like, I just know I need to go, I can sense it, I need to go, and then he sort of, uh, shows me while I’m there, what the reason is, and, uh, a lot of, you know, at least in my, what I’ve learned, the journaling piece has been awesome. You know, sort of, I, and I write down the date, the time, and sort of, it just sort of takes over from there. But the cool thing about it, I also fast during that time as well.

Jeff Johnson: Okay.

Josh Roberts: Uh, so just water, watering coffee, a few things, uh, give myself, um, and, what’s one of my first prayers is, God, I pray that I’ll be hungry for, for Jesus and not for food, and I, uh, Jeff, every time I say that, I feel like that’s it. I’m, I mean, I don’t really hunger for food at all for those three days, you know, uh, 60 hours, six plus hours, and it’s, it’s amazing. Don’t be moments, right? But it, it sort of just fades. Uh, and that was a recommendation from, from a mentor of mine. Um, it was actually Scott who recommended that as well, sort of that, that piece that I had thought about. Yeah.

And so that’s a key piece. And, and it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s amazing. Every time I leave there, I feel like I, if I’m feeling behind on something, like I, I felt like I’ve three months behind going into those two, three days retreats, and I come out and feel like I’m three months ahead. It is, it is incredible. Wow. The clarity that I get is phenomenal.

Jeff Johnson: What a precious time. And it’s such a good thing that you do that. I’m glad you share in that because there’s somebody out there like I said, it’s going to be motivated to go do something like that. Have that immersive time with the Lord where that’s the food. And because there’s no, there, there aren’t any meetings.

Josh Roberts: Yeah. There’s not that doesn’t matter if it’s day or night, right? So sort of time, you, you could take an app during the day and get up at the midnight and like I get, there’ve been many times, I’ve just sort of my prayers or journaling has happened at two or three o’clock in the morning, right? Because it just doesn’t matter. And you can, and, and you can tell that your cup is getting filled up because now Lauren’s on board and she’s like, time for you to get because she knows where you’re going to come home filled up. I think that’s wonderful, Josh.

Jeff Johnson: I want to tell how much time do we have to get as much time as you want to take brother, come on.

Josh Roberts: I’ll tell this story because it’s so fun. It just goes to show what I was talking about earlier. Like you don’t figure it out in one moment, right? It’s a, it’s a continuous journey. It’s an everyday journey. Yeah. But I remember it. So this was, I think this was my sixth, maybe fifth or sixth time going there. And then I get into a routine a little bit, right? You get into the routine like, and I use, for coffee, I use this percolator. It’s this little percolator. It’s, you know, that I’ve, I’ve used every single time. I dip the water out of the creek, you know, and, and fill it up. And it’s just like this whole thing that’s part of, part of the experience, right? It’s sort of my version of Wilson from Castaway, right?

I remember I’m getting ready the day before, and I’m looking everywhere for this percolator and I can’t find it anywhere. And I’m like tearing the house apart, you know, trying to find it. I’m getting frustrated. I’m asking Lauren. I know, you know, it’s, where did she put it, right? Did somewhere, I know, was in the back of this where I kept it, it was just, it was sort of just this, this scrambled to find this percolator.

I finally gave up, and I’m like, you know what, I’ll just go to Walmart the next morning, sadly, I’ll get a new percolator, a new best friend that I’ll take with me, you know, on this retreat. So I go to Walmart, buy the percolator, get my Bronco, drive two and a half hours, get out, you know, park, I go, I go to Kevin G, I’ve been in Kevin J, Kevin G, all different seasons, all also symbolic for me. Jason G, he’s yeah, that works. Right. I mean, it’s like, what are we talking about here? It’s like too obvious.

So, um, Kevin G, I get out, and this time, I’m, I’m first thing I’m wearing, I’m like, I want to build a fire, I want to get the fire built so that I can go to the creek, get my water, get my percolator, get my coffee, and once I get my coffee, everything’s good, you know, like that, but I was, I was so focused on that. So I get out of my Bronco, and I start looking for this percolator, and I’m, and I’m not seeing it. And I’m like, I literally just bought those Walmart bag, and there’s no percolator in this bag. And so then I start digging through the back of the truck and through my bags, and there is no percolator to be found.

Jeff Johnson: Oh, no.

Josh Roberts: This Bronco. And you know, I was standing by the fire, and it sort of hit me. Every other time that I had been there, the first thing I did was drop to my knees and pray. Right. Like that. This time, all I want to do is build a fire and get that first cup of coffee. But God didn’t want my coffee. He wanted my attention. And I realized that the poiculator lost in that moment, but it was removed because I had made the ritual more important than the reason.

And so for the next three days, no coffee. But I didn’t need it at that point. And I think that’s sort of where somewhere between that that stillness and that clarity, that’s where peace is shown back up. Right. I mean, and it was, it was one of one of the best times that I’ve had on that retreat, but I sort of needed God once again to like, like, hey, do you know your folks don’t know wrong thing here?

Jeff Johnson: So that is such a beautiful story, John. So anytime I hear the percolator now, like that’s my, I love that sort of, I do still have them, like, though, I think what I, you know, I don’t even want to guess what happened, but it has never been found. It’s never been found.

Jeff Johnson: Well, you know, there’s there’s a story in the Bible where Jesus was ruffling some feathers and they pushed him over to a cliff and he just escaped, walked through the crowd or whatever. So, you know, whether he turned invisible or whatever he did, yeah, that percolator’s just gone because it just needed to be gone. It wasn’t the point.

But that’s so beautiful that you’re, that you’re that in tune. Because of the courageous act, because of the thing that got bad enough that it dropped you to your knees so that you could finally come to the end of yourself. Then and henceforth, you’ve been recalibrated so that you end up going to this retreat and doing this thing and then you even go to the retreat and you’ve got a, you’ve got a motive that’s a little bit off-squeue because you want to coffee first before you talk to Jesus and you’re able to recognize that and stay in the moment. See what, see what this courage does and that’s amazing, Josh, what you’re talking about. That’s absolutely fantastic. I’m so glad you shared that story.

What do you feel like, do you feel like that now? Well, I think that’s a stupid question, Jeff. You’ve already answered it. You feel rooted. You feel purposeful. You’re not as easily rattled because of what happened to you.

Josh Roberts: Yeah, I mean, I’m still a, I’m still broken, I’m not fixed all the way, but for sure I have a better foundation. I can just sense decisions and things that I do are grounded. And then I you know, still make a mistake. So I’m still asking for forgiveness all the time. What’s the thing? It’s like even church. It’s like church isn’t, it’s a hospital for the sick, not a country club for the, yeah, it’s not a hotel for saints. It’s a hospital for the sick, right? Yeah, or country. Yeah.

So that’s sort of how I feel. I feel like I still need, I still need a lot of work, but it’s a lot of, I mean, I have way more peace, way more clarity now than I did before.

Jeff Johnson: And, you know, I wanted to, I want to take advantage of one last little question, then I’ll let you go. Josh, you’ve been so generous with your time here. Who was it? I don’t know if it was Rick Warren or if it was Tim Keller or somebody. I remember them talking about how because God is the creator that we are made in his image. So we’re creative by nature, which you can talk about artistic creativity or you can talk about entrepreneurialism, you know, any of those different kinds of creative endeavors. There’s all sorts of them. And you and your sweet wife are like some of the most creative people in business and in art, which is so lovely about you guys.

But they said that because God is the creator and we’re made in his own image, that that’s where the creativity comes from. It comes directly from God. And when we sin, when we run counter to God, when we reject him because we’re trying to solve problems on our own, this, that and the other, that creativity thing gets shut off. And so you don’t sense it so much. I see you as such a creative entrepreneurial person in business. Can you speak about that a little bit? Is that true? That creativity, that entrepreneurial zest comes from God because I’m just you’re you’re clearly just getting started. I mean, I don’t know what other gazillion businesses you’re going to get going.

Josh Roberts: But talk about that a little bit. Yeah, I sort of that they’re all that now I have them all in my wall back here. But it’s sort of like a blessing and a curse like sometimes I’m just like I just want to stick with one, you know, like it’s sort of exhausting. I do think there’s a lot of that. It or all of it is coming from him. And it does when I make the mistakes and I go off on a tangent, it’s because I’ve missed. I didn’t do what you talked about earlier.

Yeah, sort of you’ve ever read Sacred Pace by Terry Loper. I have and I will though. It’s a really great book. And it’s also really good for those decision making sort of you sort of laid it out already. You know, it’s when you have when you have decisions you have to make it sort of gives you a four-step process to go through. You know, I talk to my friend Jesus, right? I look for I look for signs. I I died a self as the last one, right? It’s like, and that’s the hardest one sometimes, right? It’s like, is this really my will or is it your will? And if I get that mixed up, it’s it’s bad news, you know, but the creativity piece I’ve felt it.

And I think that’s why these retreats are so powerful for me because that’s when the connection is the strongest. And I I always pray I pray during the week, you know, I wish I pray for that connection that I can capture it in shorter shorts, you know, it’s like human nature. I want it. I want to get that same connection, but I want to do it in 30 minutes, you know, it just doesn’t exist. And so I the frequency of those things like I I did one here in Pittsburgh because I wasn’t able to get the Abrams freak. I just did a 24 hour. And I think that’s sort of what I’m because I need that connection and I need that he does. He gives me inspiration and creativity.

And I can sense it when it happens, the clarity is like perfect, you know, and then it’s and then I know that I’ve sort of I went through that process. I prayed about it. I looked for signs. I made sure that I paid attention because he will send you signs. And then you sort of died of self and and you can and then and then it’s just like all systems go.

Jeff Johnson: All systems go. Everything is switched on.

Josh Roberts: Yeah, totally. So it’s severed. You’re right. It’s just a whole different story. Yeah. It gets shut.

Jeff Johnson: I found that to be very true. You know, this this sinful nature. I don’t want to do self-effacing, but let’s call it what it is. You know, I mean, the Jeremiah that version Jeremiah is so awful. It says the heart is deceitful above all things who can understand it. You know, I mean, it’s just one of those. But when I try to when I try to do things on my own, that creativity piece I notice is the first thing that gets shut right off.

And when I get back on my knees and get tuned in to God, then it starts flowing correctly. And I see things, you know, that are in front of me to be done that are purposeful enough him. And that’s what I want. Right. And it’s daily, right? I mean, it’s really that’s the one.

Josh Roberts: It was I was listening to something the other day. Another miracle morning says another great book would sort of let helps you help you really plan out your morning. It’s based on the acronym savers. So silence, affirmation, visualization, exercise, reading and scribing. And really the silence piece, the person who wrote it as a Christian, and he what he really means, I’m going to tell you, he won’t say this maybe, but is is is is prayer, right? He sort of touched on that a little bit in the book. And it’s such a big part.

And when you think about it, really, I mean, our life is lived one day at a time, right? Like yesterday’s gone, it’s history. It doesn’t exist. Right? And it’s a borrow isn’t here. It’s like every single day is your life, right? Like in the moment, it’s sort of like a sort of live in the moment, but like it’s so true. That connection with him at all times. Because if you skip a couple days, I mean, that’s, you know, then if you if you miss it, you just missed it.

Jeff Johnson: That’s right. Then you’ve just missed it. Well, I so for our listeners, Josh and Lauren are so creative, tuned into the Lord, wonderful dear friends of Daniel and I, we get home from some of these endeavors and there’s a little box of little plastic Jesus says and little kitschy kind of things. And it’s just it spills out of this box. All these wonderful little gifts.

Well, a year or so ago, we received a gift from Josh and his wife, Lauren, that was like this vacuum sealed thing. And I had to pop it open and all of a sudden in front of me was like this four foot stuff, Jesus, which was like the craziest thing. And it’s like huge. It’s like really big. So I put it all over the place now and have it up in my office, you know, and whatever. And it’s like that what would Jesus do bracelet or like anointing oil that you can smell? It reminds me of the presence of the Lord and talk about creativity, talk about Josh going on his retreats, talk about coming to the end of yourself and hitting your knees.

Josh, I want you to know I’ve got that Jesus out in my Chevy Silverado pickup truck right now. And he’s buckled in in the passenger seat. And I go riding down the road with him. And people are going to think I’m foolish. But every once in a while, I’ll reach my hand over and just grab his hand. And I’ll just be like, thank you, Lord. And I’m like, is this is this a little bit weird, Jeff? And I’m like, you know, I just don’t even care. Because what you’ve taught me what you’ve taught me is to practice the presence of the Lord. And and your life exhibits that. And you’ve got so much more ahead of you, Josh, but you’re a dear friend and a man of great courage. Thank you so much for being on the program today.

Josh Roberts: I you’re welcome. I’m going to add one thing to that because the inspiration you started this whole thing. And I love the pictures I get of you and Jesus, right? You know, he’s right. Shotgun buckled in mind you.

Jeff Johnson: That’s right.

Josh Roberts: Or in your office or at church, wherever, you know, he sort of follows you around now, right?

Jeff Johnson: Yes.

Josh Roberts: Sort of the, you know, that’s the I followed you around ever. But when it started, I remember we were on one of our, our, you know, we see each other once a year. And I think we were telling you at this time a little bit about the story. I don’t think you got the whole, the whole thing.

But we were starting this salon business. We’re talking about how we want to pray. We’re praying over it. And we’re going to write all these scripture. You know, it wasn’t built. Yeah, but we’re going to write all the scripture all over the walls behind the walls before they built it. And and you gave us this anointing oil delivered the anointing oil to us. And you sort of gave me the inspiration on how you do it in your business. And it was, I was just blown away by that. The love and the commitment and the way that you sort of surrender to that.

And just, and you’re just, I just, I just picture you putting this anointing oil all over the place. And so we did the same. We took it and we for both the Varsalans, we anointed the entire place for, you know, because you gave us that that anointing oil. And it was just a gesture. And that’s why we that’s how we know it’s protected, you know. And and ever since then there’s you might even have a you might even have another gift showing up here pretty soon.

Jeff Johnson: I can’t wait, Josh.

Josh Roberts: I don’t want to give anything away here, Jeff. But I booked that yesterday and I was like, I just put my head down on my head. Here we go. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Jeff Johnson: Oh, I can’t wait. Well, you guys are so fantastic, Josh.

Josh Roberts: Thank you for having me. It’s been awesome.

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