Eric Voelker: When Courage Means Showing Up Again Tomorrow

In this deeply moving episode, Eric Voelker—educator, former pastor, coach, and two-time NCAA wrestling champion—opens up about what true courage looks like at this stage in his life. Far from the spotlight of athletic victory or public ministry, Eric shares how the most courageous thing he’s ever done is simply showing up, day after day, to care for his daughter in the midst of her ongoing mental health struggles. At 59, Eric reflects on how God used a twoyear season of stillness to strip away distraction, deepen his purpose, and prepare him to step back into work and life with a new mission: to become love.
With a raw honesty and hard-earned wisdom, Eric unpacks what it means to be faithful in the valley, how courage grows through submission and sacrifice, and why encouragement, presence, and spiritual clarity matter more than ever. Whether you’re walking through hardship or simply trying to find your footing, this conversation will remind you that the most powerful thing you can do is keep showing up—with love.

Thank you for listening! We hope you feel inspired and encouraged by our conversation today. If you did, be sure to share this episode with others.

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See you in the next episode! Be blessed!

Full Transcript

Announcer: Welcome to Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics. A look into what motivates us to step out in courage and the everyday bravery of men and women like you. In each episode, we hear a personal story of bravery centered around this question. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And now your host, founder of Crossroads Apologetics, Jeff Johnson.

Jeff Johnson: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another edition of the Courageous Crossroads podcast. My next guest, Eric Volker, is another dear friend of mine, and Eric stopped by for the interview where I could ask him the question, what’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And I got around to it, but it was long after he and I had already kinda traiped through what the Lord has been doing in in Eric’s life. And it was so enriching and so encouraging, and I know that it’s gonna encourage you the same.

Jeff Johnson: So, let me introduce you to my dear friend, Eric Volker, who’ll tell you a lot more about himself. But we start off with him talking about, taking a new position after he’d been on a little bit of a hiatus for the last couple of years, and, God called him back into the work environment. And, anyway, here’s Eric.

Eric Voelker: This once again, in the many, many, many red carpets that God’s rolled out in my life for me, One after another.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: Once again, in a place that I can’t get moved Mhmm. It had me sitting down for upwards of going on two years of, like, what’s up and what’s going on here, god. It had me thinking, you know, this this red carpet looks like it’s rolling out again. And, like, my my thought was and I I shared this with them through the interviews, there are not many things now at 59 years old that I’m willing to stand up for and invest my life in. That’s one of the things I learned in those two years. There are not that many things in this world that are worth giving your life to.

Jeff Johnson: Now what do you okay. Say more about that because you’re more selective.

Eric Voelker: Because time is short.

Jeff Johnson: Yep.

Eric Voelker: That is it. God’s call is the most important thing. And so Yeah. I’m not just gonna willy nilly say yes to…

Jeff Johnson: Yes.

Eric Voelker: The first experience I had with that was COVID as much as I hated that whole world world and that whole I don’t even like saying the word, giving any credit.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: But we did have an experience that had that type of opportunity to focus like that Mhmm. Coming out of full time ministry. Also, there part of that is be getting 57, 58. It’s…

Jeff Johnson: Yep.

Eric Voelker: There is something very natural that God’s designed that this knowledge or this awareness around wisdom and under understanding, like, what is important and what’s not, it does start at least it’s available to consider more and more and more as we get older.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: But this time off out of hope, a bit of a of a confusing bubble and at level seven to 10. Right. So to not have the what’s next, the this next achievement, this next hard movement in my life, I didn’t I it was confusing to me. And what happened in there also was, Gail had some health care issues…

Jeff Johnson: Yep.

Eric Voelker: That had to, not had to. We we got to walk through her with walk through that with her.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And it became real clear to both Cheryl and I that this is one of the primary reasons that God moved my life Mhmm. Was to prepare me and she to do this, to be able to become guardians, of Gail’s kids while she, you know, can’t take care of them, and then also to include her care in our life as well. And it’s full time, full on.

Jeff Johnson: So you see you see god’s purpose in calling you I don’t mean to say calling you out of ministry, but calling you out of that functional thing that you were doing at that 45 degree up bubble and level seven. Calling you out of that to slow down for a minute so that you could take care of your daughter…

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: So that you and your wife could slide into that.

Eric Voelker: I look back and think if this had happened while I was still working and hope like that, I my availability to do that, it would have been a role you know, can you keep working here? Can you make this work? How does this work? We wouldn’t have known how to do that.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: But Cheryl had retired. We were both in I was in a job from a friend of mine, you know, trading electricity that was extremely flexible to be able to take care of anything, and she was retired. And we had the ability to devote a 100% of our life to that need over that summer and last fall. And as it had some degree of settling into September and October and November, I I started feeling like I was ready to roll again, not only in helping our family, you know, take care of our family, but, also to think about, like, I don’t think I’m done with, like, work in my life. I don’t know what that is, but I think I’m ready to stand up. And then this choice came of of okay. You know? My old school where I went to school, grew up, worked at at Dallas Center Grimes, they got jobs coming, and I’d look at them. I’m like, I I just couldn’t I didn’t have any sense of, like, like, deep desire or passion or confidence to say, yeah. I I would like to devote my last five to seven years of work life. This this time in my life when I’m I’ll say, you know, at the risk of somebody saying, no. You’re not. I’m the smartest. I’m the most networked. I’m the most able. I’m the most, professional. I’m the most resourced in my life now than than ever before that God’s given me.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: The culmination is here.

Jeff Johnson: Yep.

Eric Voelker: And I feel I do feel a deep sense of this is to give away. Where can I do that at? What because not all jobs can you will you feel like you got both gloves on and you’re going at it. A lot of times, we have jobs that where we feel like we’re kind of fighting behind behind our back with one arm, you know, public school. I’m not gonna be able to tell kids about Christ or these experiences in my life and how it might help them or or encourage them. Faith journey. So I crossed all the public school off. Didn’t wanna go back. Well, I I would have been open to going back into church ministry, but it would have had to been, I guess, very specific as to, I think, the the clarity of what I’m called to do there. And then this job comes along at Des Moines Christian, and it’s like, these people love the Lord. Look at the mission statement. Look at the vision. Look at the the the tenants of the faith. I’m like, I felt myself standing up. I’m like, I could walk into that and and sing the song of God Mhmm. To myself, to other people around me. I I’ve never felt so free in my life, Jeff.

Jeff Johnson: Like, you felt like you got had wind in your sails when you approached this other…

Eric Voelker: On Okay. 100%.

Jeff Johnson: Okay. I wanna ask you about that because I’m like, I’ve been reading this book by F. B. Meyer Meyer. You know, I just read…

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: All the time. Man, I don’t know why I didn’t come across this book. It’s about on it’s about guidance and stuff like that. And he gave an analogy there about a beaker of water. I actually bought myself a beaker, Amazon. I bought myself a beaker and a little glass stir and all that stuff. But he talked about how that quiet time with the Lord is so important. That solitude is so important. He said it’s like a beaker of muddy water that’s stirred up and stirred up and stirred up. And he said when you stop stirring it and you just let it sit on the table, it slows down and the silt separates and falls to the bottom and it clarifies, and you can see the clear stuff in the beginning. And he said, you you cannot unless you take that kind of solitude with God, you can’t see what the gook is that’s been mixed into your life. And so you can’t get rid of that, hand that to God, and move on with the clarity of purpose and what you’re supposed to do. Does that does that resonate with you? Because you’ve been in two years of God slowing you down, and there was purpose in taking care of your daughter, you know, you and your wife taking care of your daughter and your grandkids.

Eric Voelker: Yep.

Jeff Johnson: And you’re still doing that.

Eric Voelker: Yep.

Jeff Johnson: But it sounds like you’ve really been slowed down. I mean, is that what you would attribute two years to? Solitude with God and separating the good from the bad?

Eric Voelker: I think that is exactly it. Yeah. It’s, it I mean, you in your, sharing right there, you saw something. You took action. You you bought the baker. You bought the stirrer. You ran the experiment. You looked at it, you examined it, you asked you’re internalizing the metaphor, and and and we’re talking about it here.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: It’s like, that’s exactly what God’s been up to in my life. I but I think I’ve been in the beaker, and he’s been stirring it, waiting for me to settle. Oh, let me see. I I I do a lot of mowing at home.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: I I listen to music, listen to podcasts, and most of the time, it takes me about two just under two hours. And I’m just riding around there crying for two hours. And I’m like, is this what getting old is? And I mean, bawling. I I’m like, I hope the I’m glad we have three acres because the neighbors are over there a little bit.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. Maybe they can’t see my face. Put your sunglasses on either. Just a hay fever. Right.

Eric Voelker: But it’s one of the things that I’ve been doing the last couple years, and I’m glad we’re back in mowing. I did it again this morning, listening to, one of your podcasts, and and we went to MercyMe a couple a month or so ago in downtown. And these songs that they sang and I think that one this this baker stirring Mhmm. The the muck settling and the clarity coming. We my wife and I, we went to, MercyMe with, Lorenzen’s. And I I’m not a mercy I I used to be a mercy me listener, like, I’ll say a long time ago when they were when they were young.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. And now we’re all old.

Eric Voelker: Correct. I’m not ready to say old. I got older. So, anyway, these songs and it’s like one of these songs is saying, lately, I find myself without anything to say. I don’t have any words. I have nothing. Like, and Bart’s singing that, and he always has the words.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: In my life, I’ve whether it’s words or actions, I’ve always had words and actions.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: And these two years for me, I think, were the that were I didn’t find it hard to sit down because I didn’t have anything to say.

Jeff Johnson: And you got a smile on your face right now.

Eric Voelker: I do.

Jeff Johnson: That’s a good that’s a freeing talk about that some more.

Eric Voelker: He he he sings this song. I listened to it over and over and over, and it’s like that line. I find lately, I find myself without anything to say. And then he says this next line. And the funny thing is that’s okay. Word of God speak.

Jeff Johnson: I know that song. It’s so good.

Eric Voelker: And but I think that, like, yeah, that time out, Steve Carter, you know, after he left Willow Creek, he right? He moves to Arizona where his wife’s from. He writes a book, in there, and it’s it’s about his time in the desert. And he was actually in the desert in Arizona.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: And he that, like, dawned on him, and so he wrote this book about this time out, the the time where you’re on the bench, learning to understand that it really wasn’t your choice.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: It was God’s choice. And then when we find out that it was God’s choice, not the the choices that we think it wants to be, like, pointing the finger at the others, that mock has to settle. And what you’re left with is the life that God’s given you and God. And I’m telling you the clarity that can come this is be still and know that I’m God.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Eric Voelker: The clarity of not necessarily the what to do, the who to talk to, the it can be these things. But the clarity is the shalom. It’s Bart’s line.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. And it’s okay.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. I’m good right here.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And you learn a little bit about, the valley?

Jeff Johnson: Yep.

Eric Voelker: And I don’t know. It’s like the older I’ve become, Jeff, the twenties, thirties, 40, 50, you know, in a lot of ways, my entire life is in the valley if I recognize it.

Jeff Johnson: If you recognize it.

Eric Voelker: And it’s okay. Not that there’s not joy. You got kids getting married, grandkids. It’s one of the most rich fun times of life.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: Again and at the same time, what are the why are we still breathing? Doing? What are we resourced for? How do we share this knowledge, this wisdom, this understanding, the hardships? And it’s like, why do we wanna do it? You know, you were on my podcast a few couple years ago a couple times, and I’m like, why? Why should I you’re and I see you and you invite me here, and I’m like, yeah. I’ll I’ll do it. I love doing this stuff because you get to talk about what God’s up to in your life.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And these things matter to us, and what I’m a 100% sure of is they matter to other people. And when we’re willing to reach out, put our arm around, show, share, be vulnerable, sometimes say more than we should.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: Sometimes say less than we should. But just be authentic.

Jeff Johnson: It it’s being authentic. It’s like telling the truth.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. This is how I’m trying to find my way through life listening to the shepherd’s voice. And it’s like, how how do we get there? And and, like like, why should I start? Because I’ve been thinking about starting mine up again. And I’m like, why should I? There’s 1,000,000 podcasts out there. Why why should I speak? And it’s like, at this point in my life, I don’t wanna speak unless God wants me to.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. Amen.

Eric Voelker: And I’m close to pulling the trigger and and doing it, but maybe I’ll just come over here.

Jeff Johnson: Okay. No. This is the worst. You know, the the best the best interviews, Eric, are when my synopses start firing, and everything that you’re saying is reminding me of something else.

Eric Voelker: Mhmm.

Jeff Johnson: And that’s happening to me right now. I’m thinking about, you know, the solitude that you’ve been in. Call it the desert. Call it the valley. Whatever you wanna call it.

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: You know, I think it was Albert Einstein who said that one of his keys to his success, the revelation that he got in his life, was that he was just more willing to sit with a problem longer than anybody else. In recovery, this is why they’re all fired. In recovery, we say, God never closes a door without opening another, but it can be hell in the hallway. Do you know what I mean?

Eric Voelker: Sure.

Jeff Johnson: When you just…

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: But there’s purpose in that too. And if and if you can just like what you’ve done, if you can just be patient, if you can just wait, wait, even if a lot of it feels like it’s commanded by God and He’s just held you down maybe for a while till you can slow down long enough to see things with more clarity for what they really are.

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: That’s that’s a real blessing, isn’t it?

Eric Voelker: Yeah. I think I was I think we were in this loft. I don’t know when it was. It was a couple years ago anyway. I I I told you, and I I haven’t I have not shared it very much because I don’t know. I this dream I had, where God I think it’s the one dream in my life that I’m that I’ll vocalize that I’ve ever had that I feel like God told me you know, like, well, God told me in a dream.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: I I’ve always been in that part where I, like, I believe it when people say that to me, but I cannot identify with that because I don’t think I would identify dreams I’ve had in that manner.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm. But But this one.

Eric Voelker: I could have been wrong, but I don’t know. This one, I I know he told me.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. And it was a dream.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. And, I I probably walked around with it for better than a year because I didn’t know how to what to do with that myself. And then I think you’re one of the first people I shared it with. I not because I thought the process was foul, but because I looking back now, I was scared of what it said, what he said in it. And he told me, and and I it he just said, I’m gonna turn you into love. And okay. I I I I love people. I mean, I I I get it. Does God want me to crochet that on a pillow, or what is he talking about? What is that? And, I think that one of the things that happens is, when we’re talking about courage. You you love CS Lewis. He in mere Christianity, he tells us little, story about this kid who has a sore tooth, and mom wants to take him to the dentist. And he doesn’t wanna go and, you know, he doesn’t wanna go because he knows they’re gonna pull the tooth. And, he want he wants him just to work on it. And it’s like, yeah. That is what we want. We know that God needs to do the overhaul, but we’d like to have a little bit of ourselves when we arrive.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: You know? We we’d like we ask to be made new. To be and being made new is to become something wholly other. It is to become unlike our former self.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And it’s like, well, there are parts of myself that I like, and it’s like, no. We’re taking the whole tooth out.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. Wow.

Eric Voelker: And I I heard a science thing on some, podcast the other day. It says every seven years, approximately seven years, the the entire cell makeup of our body is replaced.

Jeff Johnson: Changes over. All brand new.

Eric Voelker: And like, yeah. Like Like, stuff flakes off or you spit The calcium wetter. This elbow bone goes out and it puts new ones in.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And it’s like, that already is happening to us very naturally in the body. All our body, our mind, our entire makeup is is in that process.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And it’s like it’s really in I think in the same way that God renews our mind.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And if we’re if the muck of our lives, sometimes not just the stuff of our lives, but if our lives, ourselves, our spirit, our being can get settled, he’ll do it there too. And the clarity comes to be made new. And I this I think this you asked, in the podcast you sent me, you asked a guy, where have you been most courageous?

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: So I I’ve been driving around the mower thinking about that question. It’s like you know how you want your 17 year old kid at the most mature thought that a 17 year old could have. And then you want when they’re 30, you want them to have probably a lot different type of thought.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: The most mature thought that a 30 year old should have.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: But we kinda don’t want our 17 year old having the mature thought of a 30 year old. They’re 17. They get to they get to live in the ideal, the the the untested, the the exploratory piece, these, what do you call them? The unproven pieces of life. They get they they get that freedom. Like, you go younger, it gets more clear. We got a six year old living with us, our granddaughter.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: She runs around. She moves like a puppy. Right. A puppy moves very different than a than a older dog. Right. You don’t want the older dog moving like the puppy. They’re gonna get hurt. Right. Right. It’s a different time of life for a different existence, and I think that God gives us these things. It’s, I think, why we get to 50 and 60 and we start we’re okay sitting down and talking for an hour. We’re we don’t need to be somewhere else.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. That that’s harder to understand when you’re 20. You you got, you know, you got other things. You got the next thing sitting over there, and and your mind doesn’t you haven’t sat down. You don’t have the limitations. You don’t have any of that. You got the carefreeness. And so there’s some maturing that we know needs to be done. But but yeah. When you’re I’m 57. You’re 59.

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: I’m the smartest I’ve ever been right now Right. In my whole life.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. And there’s things that I process completely differently now that I processed when I was 17 years old.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And and at fifty seven fifty nine, even if you’ve had the the a nice 45 up type life, which and that’s not every piece of it. But we’ve had, you know, parents die. We’ve lost parents, lost friends, and we’ve had we have friends that struggle deeply. Sometimes we’ve struggled deeply. There are issues and hardships all over if we’re looking. That’s the big thing.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: And I think as as we get older and we get who who how would Job ever have called what he went through? Oh, that was an opportunity. I I I really don’t like it when people force I think that’s a forcing…

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: To say that. That was a blessing from God. And I’m like, well, I I don’t know that the car wreck that took my six year old was a blessing because I learned this from it.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. I I’m not…

Eric Voelker: The pain was very real, and you can have that back. Thank you very much.

Jeff Johnson: The pain, the uprising, the promise, the realization that he walked through me in the depth, those are real, and those are blessings.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. But I I I’ve I don’t think I’ve ever subscribed to that type of populist type conversation of, like, god’s teaching me a lesson in the midst of this, cancer. It it’s like, mostly, I think he’s trying to tell you that he loves you and he’s with you. He’s he’s sorry this has happened to you, but he’s gonna be there and he’s gonna get you through it.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm. Which is no different than what he was trying to tell you when you missed the bus when you were in grade school too.

Eric Voelker: Right. It was the same thing.

Jeff Johnson: I’m here. But the pain is real.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. Right? It is real.

Jeff Johnson: You know, I’m my my dad is 87. Mhmm. I don’t wanna start bawling on this podcast there. He’s he is in a skilled care facility now. And what we assume now is Parkinson’s has gotten dramatically worse, fell and broke his hip, and that ended up with him in a chair, and he stayed there now. And he’s not going home.

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: He’s not going out of that room. And his Parkinson’s gets him confused sometimes, and other times there’s clarity. You know, I was over there visiting him this morning, and the good part about it is I’m ten minutes away, so I get to see him a couple three times a day when I can. I go in there. He was finishing up breakfast, and we got done with breakfast, and he’s in his chair. And I pushed him in the wheelchair back into his room, and we brushed our teeth, which is hard for him to do now. He’s not as dextrous as he was. And mouthwash, and he can barely get up to the sink and spit. And then he’s like, gah. And he sees the you know, and then we gotta clean up the little mess. And he’s like, get me a cool washcloth, Jeff. And best he can, he’s just running that across his face to kinda clean himself up. And I comb his hair a little bit. His wife, my stepmother, wonderful woman, she’s been there in a in a memory care facility for five years. She’s in a chair. She’s not audible. And all he wants to do is get rolled over there next to her so that he can tell her that he loves her. Eric, that’s his that’s his whole day.

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: And he because of the Parkinson’s, he doesn’t remember it hour an hour after he did it.

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: But I was in that room today. You know, she was still laying in bed, and we went over to her room, rolled this chair next to her. And his hips all busted, and he can’t stand up and all the Parkinson’s and all this stuff. And he’s like, Jeff, can you get me close enough so I can stand up to give her a kiss?

Eric Voelker: Wow.

Jeff Johnson: I said, I’m sorry, pop. She can’t stand up. And he reached over and grabbed her hand and pulled it over and kissed the back of her hand. Nancy, I love you. I love you so much. And I thought, man, that’s the whole thing right there. That’s God. That’s the whole picture. And all this other stuff that I worry about and fuss over and everything, you can just flush it down the toilet. I don’t know where this fits in and what you’re talking about, but like I said, you’re making me think of everything else going on in my life. But I think that’s God right there.

Eric Voelker: Solid on, Jeff. You say that. I I my mind clicks right back to, like, you’re sitting there describing that, you know, as we do. We move our hands around in in describing stuff. But I I I’m sitting there, like, my mental picture is you got the beaker sitting there, and and there’s the the glass stir stick, and it’s stirring. And as as tragic as Parkinson’s and and end of life and and health decline is, in some ways, the metaphor, like, the and you say that this is what God’s doing in our lives. It’s like, yep. It is if, you know, we can get to the the metaphor of that beaker and and the muck settling of life Yeah. What’s left there is a man, The clarity of the water on top now.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: It’s not confused by job. Do I have enough? Did did I get this? Did I say something wrong four years ago and need to correct that? The the the million things of our lives that stir all the time, they settle, not by desire when you have Parkinson’s. But if what he’s got left is the memory of his wife and his deep love for her Mhmm. You wanna talk about the clarity of a blessing.

Jeff Johnson: Right. That’s right.

Eric Voelker: Not confused by anything else. Jeff, can you help me get close to her? I love this woman. Right. Help me help me stand up.

Jeff Johnson: Right.

Eric Voelker: He not even in that well, I’m sure he is in other parts of maybe your your, interaction with him frustrated with some of these things as well, but maybe not if he’s not remembering a lot of it.

Jeff Johnson: Mm-mm.

Eric Voelker: But I just love the idea of, like, I’m I’m sidelined at some level in my life. Mhmm. Lost, you know, out of this job, not sure what comes next. I’m sidelined for a football accident. Mhmm. Not doing that. Not sure how it’s gonna work out next. I’m sidelined in health. I got a buddy out in Arizona. He hopefully, they’re done with surgery by now, but, has an epileptic seizure a couple days ago, brain surgery today. And it’s like, I’m sidelined. And what comes in that space is really, really difficult. Really difficult. It’s the these are the hardest things of life.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: But what we find in these places is what are we left with? And somehow, I don’t I don’t know how it is. It’s Psalm 23. Somehow, I don’t have anything to say.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And you know what? That’s okay.

Jeff Johnson: It’s okay. Yeah.

Eric Voelker: Can you get me a little closer to her for a kiss?

Jeff Johnson: That’s it. I can’t That’s it. That’s it.

Eric Voelker: It’s I I and I think in this hard year we’ve had this last year with Family Matters, it seems a little odd that six, eight, ten months into that, that’s when I stand up and say, I will invest my life five days a week for however many weeks we work here minus a lot of vacation now because I’m old and I negotiated that way.

Jeff Johnson: Good for you.

Eric Voelker: I will sing the song of God in that place because that is what matters to me.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: Because I wanna tell people stories like that we’re talking about right now.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: The we all go in the valley.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. Every every single one of us.

Eric Voelker: And how can we come alongside and wait with, be with, pray for, lift up, give? How can we not become love to the other person?

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And so it’s like, what’s the most courageous? I would not have even come close to being able to describe this way this this way outside of this last year of my life. Okay. What’s the dream about? Why Why didn’t I wanna tell? Mhmm. Oh, god’s gonna turn me into love. Yeah. Whatever. Right. Yeah. That isn’t he doing that to everybody? Yeah. But the main one he’s working on is is that he will see this through Yeah. In your life? You. You can ask about the other people. Is he working on it? Yep. In their lives too. But mostly, he’s working on it in you. Most Right? Most that it his his he just doesn’t have to do it like we have to do it. Like, I’ve got I’ve got three kit. You have four kids.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: I got three. You got four. I gotta split my time up to three. He he’s a 100% all and only somehow on you Right. And me and a 100% on you. It it is all his sending of Christ, his love, he’s promised to be there, redeem, make whole, glorify, live eternally. We that is not at risk in our lives for him. The muck stirs in our life, and we sometimes think it is dependent on other things.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm. But he’s not worried about it.

Eric Voelker: Oh, he’s not. It’s a done deal for him.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. He will stand up and give give us a kiss.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. It it’s a done deal. He totally will. And I think that, like, these desert times of our lives and the and the great encouragement other people. I I don’t know that God has turned me into love. But two years of sitting down, he has moved and matured my life to let go now. I it’s not almost everything. I think you got a long way to go. But, like, he’s helped me set down a lot of bags in my life. A lot of things I think are important, things I think I need to say and tell and show.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: When I think the number one gift and ability he’s given me is to love him and let other people see it Yeah. And not worry about it.

Jeff Johnson: Come back to I wanna ask you that question. Okay. I wanna be specific with that question. What Eric Volker, what’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done?

Eric Voelker: Oh, you’re noticing I’ve flirted with that but avoided it for the last half hour? The tears are good. Well, it isn’t winning two national championships. It isn’t even thirty six years of marriage. That’s that’s that’s high on the list, but it’s not that. God gave us a gift that put that in place that hasn’t really hasn’t ever been even close to not being great. It isn’t, you know, a decade in fire department helping, serving people. It isn’t like thirteen years, fifteen years of teaching in public school and learn learning actually that encouraging encouraging people is more important than showing them stuff. That took me fifteen years in public school to learn that. It it isn’t diving in and, like, conquering the coaching world in athletics. It it wasn’t there are a lot of things from being a full time pastor that took a lot of courage, especially in the early time of doing that. Even though I was older, diving into walking into a lot of deep care situations that I often felt, unqualified to speak or to be with. Those were there were a lot of big things like that in end of life. People really, like, really realizing come to you in that capacity, it’s it’s some of you that they’re after, but mostly what they’re after is somebody that’s, like, representing God’s voice in that in that time, in that place. There’s some courage in that, but after a while of doing that, it really that goes away because you have a full on trust that God’s gonna give you words, a touch the way to touch on a shoulder that hurts. He’s gonna show you how to do that, and it’s not really courage anymore. It’s like it’s like an it’s more of an honor it isn’t even, my life, it isn’t even I got a I got a kid that’s sick. And, you know, however you wanna put that, she’s got some deep struggles.

Eric Voelker: And that’s gonna last a while, a a long while, well past my last breath here, probably. That takes a good deal of courage to keep moving forward and not get not let the details of the frustrations of the day and critical important thing. It takes courage to to help somebody with mental illness, to give your life again tomorrow to them, and then again the next day, and then again the next day. When there comes days in that when you’re like, okay. Now let’s get going. You know? We’ve we’ve waited. We we’ve run the list. We’ve run it down. We’ve went to therapy. We went to the done all the stuff. Time to get going.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: But the sheer nature of what it is without some miracle of God, there is no getting going.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: So you come back again tomorrow to do the same thing.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And so to the what’s the most courageous? I don’t I don’t even feel necessarily that great in telling you this, Jeff, because people that have a dad with Parkinson’s, what I just described is you already know that.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. Three times a day. Yeah. Several time several, if not all times a week.

Eric Voelker: How long, lord? How long?

Jeff Johnson: Sing it, you two. Right? Exactly.

Eric Voelker: How long? Not that I don’t wanna love her. Not that you don’t wanna go visit your dad. But really?

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. Really?

Eric Voelker: We can’t somehow take care of this one, Lord?

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Really?

Eric Voelker: And we get this all the time. I’ll say we, but I’m I’m talking about me, but…

Jeff Johnson: No. I get it. We’re all in it in in different ways.

Eric Voelker: And I think to me, the it’s not necessarily for me courage to I’m after we’re done, I’m gonna go over and weed eat Gail’s house.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: You know? And I I enjoy that. I’ll see her. Hey. What’s up? You know, small talk.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: Meanwhile, we know something is deeply out of joint.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. Something that you can’t fix.

Eric Voelker: But we get this opera I get this opportunity to understand what God’s talking about in my life when he says, I’ll be with you. I will be with you. I will never leave you or abandon you. Ever. I’ll be back tomorrow and tonight and the next night. And the way you run your life will probably be in the same place.

Jeff Johnson: Right. And I’ll be here. That’s courage, Eric.

Eric Voelker: I will be here. And so to get to to get to do these things…

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: I don’t have to force the language. Will I get to help my kid that’s struggling?

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: Nope. I don’t. But I do get to.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: What else would I do? The character of what else would god do? What? He’s not he’s gonna think about not showing? That’s not in his nature, and it’s his nature now that he’s given me to do the same for her. But the courage comes not in knowing that, but to submit to it.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: Got other thoughts about it. You know? Some you know? I don’t wanna go over there again tonight. The day, you know, the daily grind. But but that’s just that’s that’s the Psalm starting out with, oh, lord. And, like, you know, getting your venting out and your frustration out and your mess not maybe you understand or don’t understand the situation, but you need to to say what’s up with that, God? Can’t we get over it?

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm. Can’t you take care of my enemy? Really?

Eric Voelker: Right. My family’s hurt. Really? It hurts me. Really?

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: But because of what he’s done in us and what he’s done for us and he promises to complete in us, I’ll do it. I will stand up not for a job at Des Moines Christian. I I’ve done that. But first and foremost, I will stand up for her and these kids.

Jeff Johnson: You’re a good father, Eric. Isn’t it supposed to get easier? I mean You know, I heard somebody say one time. I heard a preacher say one time. You know, the the number one question for Christian apologetics is why does God allow suffering?

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: You know, we just all of us. Oh. Even if we feel like we got an answer for it, you know, we don’t have an answer. We still and we still wonder why does he allow it? And I remember there was one pastor that answered that question, you know, and the question was, where what does God do when somebody’s something horrible happens to somebody?

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: And he said, I think he I think he weeps more more than you ever could even. You know, it hurts him abominably. And I see what you’re going through Mhmm. With your daughter and and other people going through…

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: Similar things. And that’s the real test. And I think it hurt I think it hurts God. And I think Yeah. That is the promise that he gives us, though, is that we’re not going in there alone. He’s always gonna be with you.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: Ask your question. Why don’t you why don’t you answer the why don’t you solve this problem right now? Why don’t you cure my dad?

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: Why don’t you cure my daughter? Why don’t you you know you can with a snap of your fingers.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. And for sure he could.

Jeff Johnson: But the bigger thing is is that he’s right there with you, and he’s giving you all that love and…

Eric Voelker: Yeah. I I I all the courage. It, the question of why is there suffering. There’s this, viral. It’s not new. This little kid singing this. Lord, I thank you for sunshine. I thank you for rain. Thank you for joy. I thank you for pain. It’s a beautiful day. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. It’s a beautiful day. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Right? You ever heard this one?

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: So I don’t know when that came out. We talked to all the grandkids. And I’m telling you, Jeff, the timing of how things work, it I just thank god. That’s where god he might be crying, but then somebody mentions the timing coincidence thing, and he’s just like, really? Like like, somehow he doesn’t have all of that. My granddaughter, a couple days ago, we were she was singing that, and she walked up to me. And she she’s six. And she says, grandpa, why do we thank God for pain?

Jeff Johnson: Wow.

Eric Voelker: And I’m like, like, all those things in there, a six she at six is like, yeah. That’s natural. You say thank you for those things. Right?

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: And we got this thing. And as we get older, we’ve grabbed on to different ways of thinking and explaining and experiencing that. So sometimes we think we’re good with it.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: And then when we leave the hospital visit room, we’re like, and what’s up with that again? Right back in the six year old question. Right? And I I just said, you know, I I don’t really know, but I some things I know are when we’re hurting with pain, sometimes that leads us to ask God for help.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: And that’s a good thing. And sometimes when we have pain, it’s to let us know that we might not be doing something the best way, and we maybe we should make a change.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: But I said I those two ways of thinking about it makes sense to me at 59.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And yet, even with that general thought on it, Lord, why won’t you fix it? Right. Why won’t you do it?

Jeff Johnson: I love the way you thank you for answering this question with as much depth as you just did. And it’s making me think, you know, most of the guests that come on this podcast, I ask them to define courage. And I’m feeling like maybe I need to think about that in a different way too. Because, yeah, you could probably put a sentence or two sentences around it and kind of give it a little definition, what is courage? But you’re talking about walking through love, and walking through suffering, and walking through dedication, and walking through heartache, and walking through And there’s so many more facets to it, Eric. I’m not gonna ask you that question to define courage. I’ll ask you this question, though. What you’re experiencing at 59 years old, going through this situation with your family, with your daughter, specifically, the courage that you have to go through that, is that transferable? Can you teach somebody about that? Can people learn that?

Eric Voelker: I heard you ask that question to another person this morning, And I agreed with his answer, and I disagreed with it. I think mostly it’s modeled. Your grandkids will see the way that you’re operating. They’ll never understand all the lessons. This morning, we planted a tree out in the yard and had, you know, child labor.

Jeff Johnson: Good for you.

Eric Voelker: They think they’re digging to China. Ten, eight, and six. You know? They’re going to town. I could dig that hole myself, you know, foot and a half, two feet deep, three feet around. Five minutes. They spent forty five minutes fiddle farting around on that because they they don’t have any weight to push the shovel. But they planted the tree.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: They’ve we have a I I’ve planted on, you know, going on 200 trees out there. And outside of the ones we had tree spaded in, I dug them all in myself or with them.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: They’ve seen me plant a bunch of trees. And yet, I pull in with another one in the back of the truck, and they run out to the truck and greet me, when are we gonna plant it? Because they already know how.

Jeff Johnson: They’ve seen it. You modeled it.

Eric Voelker: They’ve seen it. And I’ve really never well, first, you know, written it down on the whiteboard like we do some scripture at night and stuff for prayer and things like that. But I’ve never done that with the tree. They get the shovel. They know that we pile the dirt on these two sides, and we strip the the, the little black bucket bowl off the bottom of it and cut the roots with the knife, and they’re doing all that stuff. Oh, grandpa, can I run the knife? They they, you know, they want the impact.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: And I know because of people that have gone before me, it wasn’t what they said and showed me that mattered. It it was how they lived and how they treated me. Then I could see what they were showing me, and those are the people that are the heroes in my life.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And I I I think that, to me, this is the way courage works is, like, if we’ve ever experienced courage coming from somebody, I don’t even know what it’d be to to save us, to come alongside us, to to do the hard things that were difficult for them to do. The modeling of that is tremendous. Well, I don’t really feel like I’m a a person to be a sponsor for somebody with a drinking issue.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: But, man, I’m telling you, this person who did this for me, who gave their life up, walked through hard stuff, said yes again, two steps forward, four steps back for years. Mhmm. I’ll do that because he did it or she did it. They’ve experienced this outpouring of love that…

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: I don’t think I don’t think the love love sometimes comes easy, but most of the time, it is a submission. It is a giving up of, and it is a letting go of your own life in order to share it and give it. And it will cost you everything. Sometimes there and and then we find out there’s actually joy in the giving of your life away like that. Just exactly like God said. You want everything? Give everything away. And I don’t mean your stuff. I mean your life.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. You wanna talk about courage? There it is.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. That is the rig that, to me, that is what I’ve been talking about, the cost to my life. I had to sit down for two years to get ready to say yes at this level.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. I thought it was a time out to get over what happened.

Eric Voelker: Uh-uh. It was a muck settling getting ready for what comes next.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. Wow.

Eric Voelker: Now I’m gonna let you see not how much you’re gonna love somebody else. You’re gonna do that. But what God is really showing me is how much he loves me because I’m experiencing the price that he paid. Everything. That’s the dream. That’s the dream. It’s happening in me right now.

Jeff Johnson: Wow.

Eric Voelker: Scares me to death, Jeff.

Jeff Johnson: I can see it, Eric.

Eric Voelker: The tears because I’m not sure who I’m gonna be, and it which is all the whole goal. Right?

Jeff Johnson: You’re radioactive right now. Glory to God.

Eric Voelker: Glory to God. I I walked down I’ve never been in a workplace where when I walked down the hallway to I’m not saying I wasn’t this before. To to become new, to to grow and develop is not to call what we were before necessarily not good. Sometimes when we’re thinking about growing and developing, we’re saying, well, maybe we ought to head this direction now. And people that have come before in that previous place, they’re like, well, didn’t we do a good job? And it’s like, I’m not talking about that.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: We’ve climbed one mountain. Now we know more. We’re stronger. We’re better. Let’s climb a bigger or a different one. Going forward does not put at risk the things that have been. And a lot of people get prevented in was a roadblock to growth because they have to somehow justify what they’ve done in the past. And it’s like, That tooth is gone, pal. You’ve been made new.

Jeff Johnson: Right.

Eric Voelker: It’s a it’s a huge hurdle to that to the idea and the reality of being made new. Anyway, I walk, and I hope it never goes away. I’m only, like, seventy five, eighty days in it, Des Moines Christian. I walk into the hallway, and I you know, the the scripture, put on the put on the clothing of Christ. Clothe yourself in Christ. I’m making my temple in you. Let your light shine. Like, carry yourself in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Stand up. If God’s gonna be faithful to complete the good work that he’s begun in us to do all live all this life that he’s had in mind forever. It’s not at risk. Stand up.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve God’s made his dwelling in my life, Jeff. I believe that. I that’s evident. Eric.

Eric Voelker: Wherever I go, I I do not wanna get in the way of that.

Jeff Johnson: No.

Eric Voelker: People should feel, see, experience, whether I know it or not, the love of God when I when in my presence.

Jeff Johnson: I I hope that doesn’t sound arrogant.

Eric Voelker: No. I I think I’m talking about his promise and direction.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. Right? That’s how we should feel to people around us.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. And be wrecked in the most glorious way.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: I I walk through these whole I’m I’m trying to walk through my whole life now. This podcast, everywhere I am. When people see me, they smile. Why? I I don’t know. I hope what is happening is this supernatural existence that we have with him living in us has some effect on the world around us whether we know it or not. We are like that radioactive idea. That’s what we’re…

Jeff Johnson: It’s like the what’s his name on the Peanuts cartoon? Pigpen?

Eric Voelker: Yeah. Wearing these moves and all that dirt’s going around him. He’s got a constant dust cloud everywhere he goes. Right? You wouldn’t be like that when you walk in a room.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. Or when you can see it though, when people are when people Yeah. You know, they what’s the quote? Somebody with the experience of God is never, at the mercy of somebody with an argument.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. You know, you’ve experienced it.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. You can argue it all day long, but once you walk through it and you experience it, you know, there’s something that you’ve seen, there’s something that you’ve experienced with what’s going on with your family right now and stuff that’s going on with your work life and stuff that, you know, just comes with being 59 years old. But you haven’t you haven’t fallen away. You stayed close to God, and you’ve learned a lesson.

Eric Voelker: And when you say that, Jeff, we have friends. We know people, and we know there are people that we don’t know that I don’t know what the right language is for it. Give up, fall away, sit down, and never get up again.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. That’s right.

Eric Voelker: Get depressed in the time out. You know, lost in the desert.

Jeff Johnson: Lost in the desert. Yeah.

Eric Voelker: Unwilling to go in the desert. It’s not that those thoughts don’t come to all people when they’re in the desert, when things are hard, when their question is, will you be courageous and go again? No. I’m I’m just gonna watch Netflix tonight and order in. Well, that’s a that’s a level of falling back or sit I’m just gonna sit here.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: But we get these choices of being courageous in big places, and sometimes they matter just as much or even more in the little places because as we know, he who is faithful in little will likely be faithful in much.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. And how do you become courageous to do the big thing? Probably a series of being courageous to do the little things.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. Very I would probably bet my life on that.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. So that’s that’s why the little things it’s why, ultimately, people matter and god they matter to him, and so they matter to us. Does does courage grow over time?

Eric Voelker: Absolutely.

Jeff Johnson: So what you’ve experienced has equipped you now?

Eric Voelker: Yeah. I think it’s I’ll go back to the baker. That muck, it it not only gets settled, it it gets removed. You get a whole new set of water.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm. And so why doesn’t why doesn’t life get easier?

Eric Voelker: I I think it’s gonna get easier when he comes again, when Christ comes again. When when he when he rolls evil up like a like a like a like a old scroll or old rug He says, okay. We’re done with that now.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And he throws the whole thing in the lake of fire. And then and he’s saying that, yeah, it it’ll be a Eden life. We will be back to the eternal state of being of, like, his perfection in us. There’s no more death, no more crying, no more pain and tears.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: And it’s like, until that time, though, why in the world Now I’m asking this is rhetorical because I I I ask because I need it. Right. Why in the world should we think life should be easier? Right. If you’ve been more re as we said, we’ve been more resourced, smarter, more able, more willing, maybe more wise, never more resourced in life than right now. Imagine what god can do with that.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm. Just don’t quit. You can’t quit? Just for the for the rest of your life, to the best of your ability, just continue to pursue the things of God.

Eric Voelker: And the scripture says our best efforts are filthy rags, and I don’t take that as God making fun of us.

Jeff Johnson: No. Going nice try. Try again, bucko. No.

Eric Voelker: He’s just pointing out, look. I know that it’s gonna be hard.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. And there’s there’s and there’s stuff. Yeah. But I’m good, and I’m with you all the time just like what you said.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. Yeah. And no whether they’re…

Jeff Johnson: Just don’t quit. Don’t quit.

Eric Voelker: Be more try to be more satisfied with with the the totality of the love of God being delivered and sharing a cup of coffee. Try to be satisfied and pursue it with your life. The running down to the care facility and helping your dad give his wife a kiss.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: The totality of all of God’s existence in this moment. You know why? Because that’s how God does it to us. It is about the present and the now with him. That’s all he knows. It’s all he has. He he doesn’t have the time gig. He doesn’t have somewhere else to be.

Jeff Johnson: Right. He doesn’t have 16 other things that are waiting on him. Right.

Eric Voelker: It is it is us, and his totality is in the moment with you.

Jeff Johnson: Is it Tozer says the most important thought you’ll have today is what you is this this inner What you think about what you think about God.

Eric Voelker: God. Yeah. That’s it. It’s it is. That’s the whole thing.

Jeff Johnson: It’s the whole thing.

Eric Voelker: And so whether it’s, I’m gonna start a mission at 60 years old that’ll be worldwide and, you know, put shoes on every kid in the world. Or whether it’s like, I’m gonna be kinder to my family. These are the things that God has prepared for us in advance. It’s what the fruits of the spirit are for.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: It is why we have been set free. Deliver it. Big, small, probably mostly small. But I’ll tell you, Jeff, in my life where I’ve experienced the most happiness is always always always in the small things. Big things are fun. NCAA tournament wrestling, you know, standing on top with your arms up in the air. I want it. You know? But that’s the big thing. There were a 100,000 little things that came with the one big thing.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. You can’t get to the big thing without the small thing.

Eric Voelker: And it’s like people live for the big thing and, you know, and then five years goes by and they realize, oh, I haven’t really developed a relationship with my kids.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. You missed all the small things that were actually the big things.

Eric Voelker: That were actually the big things. They were the thing that actually matter. But it’s, it’s really, I think, about courage to trust God to give your life away in the moment.

Jeff Johnson: Wow.

Eric Voelker: That’s it. And it doesn’t matter if it’s your kid or somebody else’s kid or a student that that you’re around or a coworker. Will you let the fruits of the spirit be unleashed in your life every moment Right now.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. You’re such a deep well, mister Volker. Golly, Ned. I I got one more my belly’s full.

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: I got one more question for you, and I’ll let you get out of here.

Eric Voelker: Alright.

Jeff Johnson: And we’ve touched deeply on the topic of courage. We have fully exhausted that.

Eric Voelker: Hoped.

Jeff Johnson: But I got a lot more questions for you, so I’m gonna have to ask you back some other you said that’s what you’re gonna do. You’re just gonna come hang out over here now. So I’m gonna ask you back a bunch. We didn’t talk about your pastoring. We didn’t didn’t talk about your pastoring. We didn’t talk about your extensive work life. We didn’t talk about, you know, all the coaching and all that stuff. We didn’t talk about the NCAA wrestling championships. I mean, so you’re a deep well. But you talk much about God, and so I want you to give some encouragement to people because I wanna know what do you think is the thing that draws you closest to God? What is whether it’s a spiritual discipline or whether it’s an awareness, what what kind of encouragement we give to people that are listening to us about deepening that relationship?

Eric Voelker: It it’s hard to say first, second, and third because I don’t know if the order matters. Head down these roads is I don’t I’m I’m kinda done prioritizing, like, first, you gotta read the Bible. Secondly, you gotta, you know, you wanna start out praying? You wanna read the Bible first? It doesn’t matter to me. All roads. If your if your life orient your life toward God. I’m not a reader. I’m not a listener. I’m not a prayer. Okay. Come and talk to Jeff and I. Look. Get around godly people that like to talk about the things of God.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: Because but if you bible? Head head to YouVersion Bible app on your phone. Go to Psalms and Proverbs in thirty one days, please. This okay. I said no number one. This might be close to a number one. Psalms and Proverbs in thirty one days. There’s a 150 Psalms, 31 proverbs. I think there’s no.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Voelker: 31 Proverbs. Over do that every month for twelve months. You’ll learn to pray. You’ll learn about the language that people have used and been taught by god to talk with him and other people. You’ll learn, like, that there’s nothing out of bounds to pray for. You can be mad at God. You can be frustrated. And somehow, he delivers all these promises along all these concerns and complaints. You’ll learn how to praise God, how to say thank you, and then and then what you’ll find is, like, you won’t just be doing that with him and reading it. It’ll start coming out of you. You know? Psalms Psalms and Proverbs, thirty one days over and over and over and over. I’ve been doing it for fifteen well, as long as YouVersion’s been up, I I run that all the time. Now I don’t hit it every single day, but, like, four four four days out of seven, I’m probably on it. I might because I do more, so sometimes I’ll skip that one, because I’m doing other ones too. But get in the bible, find if you if you’re supernatural, do it yourself, but you’re not. Find somebody. You can do those studies on your app with people.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: Let’s agree to it, and we’ll make comments each day about it and encourage each other. Pray. If you’re not a praying person, getting the getting the Psalms and Proverbs, read the look up prayer on the Google Jesus in prayer. Go to the scriptures where he’s praying. Just start looking at it. Orient your life toward God. Get connected to the body of Christ, bible study. Go to church, watch online. It what here’s the thing. If you orient yourself toward God, God will draw you in. And he’s if you’re if you’re orienting yourself toward God, he already has begun to rein you in.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: It’s his loving kindness. And, all the questions that keep you keep people from god, lost my job, didn’t get the raise, wife left me, husband hurt me, substance abuse, health issues, broken this, broken that, ask god for help. Sometimes the whole thing can begin with you don’t have to believe it. Take the encouragement of one guy on this podcast saying, take the chance and see if he’ll help you. Ask him for help. Lord, will you help me? God, will you help me? See what happens. See what happens. He because I believe he’s faithful.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: And and he will see it through. He’ll he will answer. And sometimes it’ll be supernatural. Sometimes it’ll be very in the natural order. Like, if I if I ever got that prayer request, I’d call you, and that would be an answer from God.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: That we when we get around the things of God and we orient our life toward God, he he then we’d be able to we begin to be able to see him at work. We’d be able to begin to able hear him at work. And mostly what we experience is, I think, his promise of love, peace, hope, the big tickets. And then we get drawn in to figure out, like, does it really matter if I get the red pen or the blue pen, god? And we find out that, he made them both. You can use either one. But I’m really glad you asked me.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: Because he wants the relationship. He didn’t care about the stuff.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: And I think he this is one of the key things that he’s working on teaching us and showing us. But, yeah, I I the encouragement thing. I I wish I would’ve I’ve coached and taught a lot of kids and and adults in my life, Jeff, and I wish I would’ve because I had a really baked in life of being an achiever, I’m I I did not value encouragement as highly as I might have in the younger years of coaching and teaching.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: I I think it’s I will order that in terms of, like, information, technique, practice, encouragement.

Jeff Johnson: Mhmm.

Eric Voelker: On top of the pile, on the top is encouragement.

Jeff Johnson: Encouragement. All new coaches, parents. Number one.

Eric Voelker: Mhmm. Because if it’s not on the top, it will go to the bottom in terms of priority, and people will think that you’re only about the achievement and not the people. And that that can be a real challenge to faith life too.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah.

Eric Voelker: We forget that God loves us because he we don’t have all the stuff. And once I get all the stuff, then I’ll know he loves me. It it it just…

Jeff Johnson: It does. That that’s Backwards. That’s how athletics works, though. Like, you kinda, my coach will like me when I win.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. Right?

Jeff Johnson: It’s like, no. Hopefully, the coach likes and loves you even regardless of winning…

Eric Voelker: Yeah.

Jeff Johnson: Because of who you are.

Eric Voelker: Yeah. But orient your life toward toward God is the is that’s my final answer.

Jeff Johnson: I don’t know. Charles Spurgeon says when people asked him, what’s more important, prayer or reading the bible? He said, I don’t know what’s more important, breathing in or breathing out.

Eric Voelker: Right. Yeah. I love it.

Jeff Johnson: Yeah. Eric Volker, man of of great courage. Mhmm. You’re a blessing to me, my friend. I love you so much. Thank you.

Eric Voelker: Good to be here. Yep. Good to be here, Jeff. Thanks for thanks for having me.

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