Courage in Education: Nicola’s Story of Leading Change in Challenging Schools

Nicola Maytum is an accomplished educator with a passion for transforming educational practices and fostering inclusive learning environments. Nicola brings a unique perspective to her role in education. Her journey began in the classrooms of the UK, where she honed her teaching skills and developed a deep commitment to addressing challenges in diverse school settings.

Over the years, Nicola has emerged as a leader in educational innovation, particularly noted for her work in improving learning outcomes in underperforming schools. Her approach emphasizes collaboration, resilience, and empowering both students and educators to reach their full potential. Nicola’s career trajectory reflects her dedication to leveraging education as a tool for 
improving the lives of others, advocating for inclusive practices, and nurturing a culture of continuous improvement.

Currently engaged in international school development, Nicola continues to inspire others through her insightful perspectives and unwavering commitment to educational excellence. Her journey underscores the transformative power of education in shaping brighter futures and fostering sustainable development in communities worldwide.

Thank you for listening! We hope you feel inspired and encouraged by our conversation today. If you did, be sure to share this episode with others.

Let’s stay in touch:

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• Email us at info@crossroadsapologetics.org
• Visit our website www.crossroadsapologetics.org

See you in the next episode! Be blessed!

Full Transcript

Intro:
Welcome to Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics, a look into what motivates us to step out in courage and the everyday bravery of men and women like you. In each episode, we hear a personal story of bravery centered around this question. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And now your host, founder of Crossroads Apologetics, Jeff Johnson. 

Jeff Johnson:
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another edition of the Courageous Crossroads. Glad to have you with us again today. And I’m excited for you to hear from our next guest, another dear friend of mine, Nicola Matam. She lives in the UK and she is involved in educational leadership. And she’s having transformational impact in the lives of many students around the globe with the work that she does and a woman of great courage. And I’m super excited for you to hear from Nicola and what she thinks about the idea of courage and how you can be courageous as well. So we jump right in with her describing a little bit about her work and who she’s working for. So here’s Nicola. 

Nicola Maytum:
So it’s an international schools group called Artemis, and it’s quite young, so it’s still very much a startup. I mean, it’s only been going three or four years, and it’s a little bit niche in that the company gets involved in designing and building new schools internationally. Started in the Middle east, started in Qatar and has expanded into Europe, Portugal. And we’ve got new schools coming up in other places across the Middle east, for example, Oman and then elsewhere in Europe. 

Jeff Johnson:
How many, how many schools? 

Nicola Maytum:
We’ve got three at the moment, and there are another 10 in the pipeline. 

Jeff Johnson:
These are beautiful pools. Gorgeous. Gorgeous. So how is it that it was started in Qatar and you’re in the uk? 

Nicola Maytum:
Well, I’ve spent a lot of my time actually out in Qatar. I mean, I’ve lived out there for four years. And of course, it’s. It’s our summer now, so that’s why I’m back in the. Back in the uk. It gets too hot. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. 

Nicola Maytum:
But I think why? It. It started in Qatar. It’s, it’s an interesting story. So the CEO’s mother started a school in the late 90s in Qatar. I think it was one of the first international schools. And I think a few years ago they then sold it, sold the school to a big schools group. And the CEO, he actually brokered that move. So I suppose because his family was out in Qatar, was out in Doha, there was an opportunity with that, you know, school being sold. And he had a good reputation. He’s got a huge network as you can well imagine. And people then approached him about opening other schools. 

Jeff Johnson:
Wow. 

Nicola Maytum:
So that’s how it started. 

Jeff Johnson:
Okay. Prior to that, were you involved in education? I mean, I’m curious how you came to work with them. 

Nicola Maytum:
Well, I’ve been in education for 30 years now. 30 coming up, 32 years. And I was always working in the UK. My, my background was very much state education. So in the uk, you know, the public system is called state education and the private system is called public. 

Jeff Johnson:
Oh really? 

Nicola Maytum:
Yeah, a little bit contradictory but yeah, so state education, free education. And I started my teaching career in two very high performing girls grammar schools. That’s where I got my grounding in my subject which was geography. And I was very lucky to have some great leaders, great line managers, great managers and I learned a lot from them. In fact they’ve been very influential in my career as a result from learning from these really dedicated professionals. So I went from a girl’s grammars into a, where I was in Buckinghamshire, we have what’s called a selective system. So students who pass an exam at the age of 10 go to a grammar school and those who don’t go to a, or they did then go to a secondary modern. 

Nicola Maytum:
So I, I moved to teach in a secondary modern school because I didn’t want to be labeled as a grammar school teacher. Big thing for me is inclusivity and, and I, I just strongly believe in that every child should have the same opportunities, you know, regardless of family background or family money, that actually everybody deserves the same education. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. 

Nicola Maytum:
So I, I moved to Waddesdon School as was Leading Edge School. And what we mean by Leading edge is if a school is very good and the teaching is very good, the management is very good, then we do outreach. And I was really privileged in being able to do some good outreach work with local schools that were struggling. So yeah, those were my formative years as a young idealist teacher and then middle leader. 

Jeff Johnson:
I have got so much started. I’ve got so much respect for people that are in education, especially teachers, because I just think I couldn’t do that. And when I was in college I, in my study in engineering, our engineering cohort had a little outreach thing to the local middle school and we go out there and help them with mathematics and stuff like that. And that was kind of fun because, you know, we could do it. But it was just that you have to have a special interpersonal relationship skill with People that are young and just being formed and I just think that I was always nervous that I was ruining them or something. Where did your, Nicola, where did your, where’d your passion for that come from in the beginning to go to university and pursue that education track? 

Nicola Maytum:
Do you know, I never had a plan to go into teaching, really. No, no. My degree was in geology and then I embarked on a PhD in a geology related field and it was when I was lecturing to undergraduates, that’s when I got the bug. That’s when I thought, hey, I actually like this, I enjoy this, I enjoy planning, I enjoy sharing information with other people and actually facilitating their own learning. It was, it was, I got quite a buzz out of it because. 

Jeff Johnson:
They’D respond to what it was that you were teaching them. You’d see it go in and take root and. Wow. 

Nicola Maytum:
Yes, yes. And then, I mean, clearly at university level, the teaching or the lecturing is very different. And at that point, you know, the students, they have a lot more independence. So I wanted to take that into schools. I wanted to see whether I could take my passion for my subject into a school setting. Yeah, yeah. 

Jeff Johnson:
And you sussed that out and it absolutely worked. 

Nicola Maytum:
Yeah, yeah. So I did teach training in London and that was a fabulous year. And, and the course leader, he was such an inspirational man and yeah, I, I learned a lot, so much on that PGCE that set me well, set me up well for going into my first school. 

Jeff Johnson:
Do you feel like that? I mean, do you feel like that’s the superpower that you have? Like you’re in the thing that is your gift set, you can communicate well and teach and lead. And it might not be fair to ask that because I’m kind of asking you to brag on yourself, but really, that’s what you’re describing, Nicola. I mean. 

Nicola Maytum:
Yes, I mean, I do enjoy communicating. It’s never been a problem for me to stand up on stage and talk to lots of people and just communicate in a way that engages them. You know, whether it’s a small group or a large group. It’s, it’s. I seem to be able to do that without getting too nervous. But of course, with anything, you know, it’s. Preparation is key, isn’t it? You know, you’re well prepared, you can go in there and achieve it. 

Jeff Johnson:
But I noticed that in you that came off of you know, that first little module that we had at Oxford, you know, you could just tell that you were comfortable with being there, you know, going through that learning process, and that’s a. That’s a really positive thing. And I think it’s a little contagious, too. I always do better when I get around people that are. That are authentic. You know, they haven’t learned it all yet, but they’re happy to be there and they’re grateful. Process and. 

Nicola Maytum:
Yes, yes. In fact, that course, actually, reflecting on it, one of the best courses I’ve ever done. We were so lucky with our cohort. 

Jeff Johnson:
Oh, it was wonderful. 

Nicola Maytum:
Oh, yeah. Although maybe it wasn’t luck. Maybe it was just. We all embraced it, didn’t we? We all gave to each other as. As well as taking from the course. And I think, yeah, it was. It was tough, but. But very rewarding for our. 

Jeff Johnson:
For our listeners. They’ve heard me describe this a bunch of times, but it was a postgraduate degree in organizational leadership through the SIAD School at Oxford University, which is acclaimed and wonderful. And Nicola and I. Nicola earned her way in. Easy. I lucked in. They must have looked the wrong way when they let me in, but there were 56 people in our cohort. And I always tell people, you know, they’ll sit down across the table, and they say, well, tell me what you learned. And I feel like I’m supposed to lay out all these platitudes about organizational leadership and give them a framework and how wonderful it is. And I’ve got the books and I’ve got all my notes, and so it’s in there. Okay. The thing that was the most impactful for me was meeting people from all around the world. 

Jeff Johnson:
And it was. The cohort was all across the globe and different cultures and how they approached leadership and how they just approached learning in general, and just their personal stories, too. I mean, that surprised me, how rich that learning was. That one. 

Nicola Maytum:
I. I agree with you. I agree with you. And it was also a very safe space. We could intellectually challenge each other, but in a very respectful way. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. 

Nicola Maytum:
And I. I took so much away from that. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. Well, I. I’m so grateful, Nicola, that you’ve taken time to be with us on this little podcast now, and we’re talking about courage, the subject of courage, which is dear to my heart, because it just inspires me. And I’m curious what you think when you hear the word courage, when you think about courage, when you thought about coming on this podcast and you put courage in your mindset. What did you think about? How do you define that? 

Nicola Maytum:
I think courage is standing up for what you believe in, even when, you know, things can get a little tough. So I can illustrate this in, certainly in my career, I, I used the term earlier on inclusivity, and I’m just a passionate believer inclusive education and what that can do when you go into headship. My first headship was. 

Jeff Johnson:
Now, say. Sorry to interrupt you, but say what inclusive education is. Are you talking about backgrounds or. 

Nicola Maytum:
It, it means you don’t set any parameters for children coming into your school that, you know, if you’ve got the spaces and the children live within a catchment area, then they can all go to that school regardless of their special educational needs, regardless of any kind of prior attainment, regardless of any. I mean, you know, some children in all parts of society have challenges with their behavior and so inclusivity means you open your doors to all. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. 

Nicola Maytum:
So equal opportunities for all. Now, in a way, what makes it courageous being a teacher and certainly a school leader in some very challenging schools and there are, you know, all over the world there are challenging schools and certainly in the uk, that puts your head above the parapet and that makes you’re in quite a vulnerable position because the way schools are measured, the are accountability system in the UK makes it more difficult for schools that are fully inclusive in more deprived communities, it’s more difficult to hit those narrow accountability measures. And so you can be treated a bit like a football manager. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. Average scores have to be thus and such. We can’t get our average scores quite there because we’re dealing with some people that are really struggling and we’re not going to treat, turn them away. They’re going to come. 

Nicola Maytum:
Absolutely. And that was so important to me was to teach and then lead in schools like that. So I suppose, I mean, if that’s courageous, I, I could have spent my entire career in the grammar school system. I mean, I adored the schools. They were great. The, the students and the teachers are wonderful. But I chose a very, a difficult environment. I never regretted that. 

Jeff Johnson:
Wow, that’s, that’s very honorable. So in your nomenclature, the public school system referred to as state education and the private school system referred to as public education. You’re in public education at rms? 

Nicola Maytum:
Yeah. No, no. Yeah. So, having spent my entire career, you know, I was head teacher for over 15 years in the UK, an opportunity arose to work abroad. I was, I, I had no intention of working abroad, but then my husband said to me, why don’t you go for it? You Know, you’re at a bit of a crossroads now, you know, director of education, try something different. So, yeah, so I was headhunted to take, take up this opportunity. And the education system abroad, certainly in the Middle east, is private, so it’s paid for education. And with expats, people working in these places like Doha, companies will provide an allowance for employees, children to go to school. So it’s the international system, it is private education, but it’s a lot cheaper than the private education in the uk. 

Jeff Johnson:
Okay. But it’s a standard model for expatriates that are abroad and doing that go into this kind of education. 

Nicola Maytum:
Very much so. 

Jeff Johnson:
Interesting. I’ve got a friend of mine, a really close friend of mine that is works in a hospital in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. He’s from Iowa, good friend of mine, and describes the similar kind of school system where they’ll have British people or Canadian people or people from the US or whatever, and there’s a private school system that’s kind of set up over there for them and for other people that are living in the Kingdom as well. But I imagine that’s similar to what you’re experiencing. 

Nicola Maytum:
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, families come with the employees and, you know, if you’ve got children, they, they need to be educated. Yeah, so, so that’s the sphere that I’m in now. But very much the inclusion agenda is still there. So we, it’s really important. The, the vision of my CEO and something that I’ve embraced fully is that we are building community schools. We are creating a community feel. It’s very much a culture where not only is it for the young people to have a rounded education and bringing the fun back into education actually, but also opening our doors to other parts of the society as well. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. 

Nicola Maytum:
So it’s pretty cool. 

Jeff Johnson:
How do you, how do you proactively operate in an inclusive manner and help those children that might be struggling a little bit feel like they’re not odd or falling behind or overtly receiving just special attention or something like that, to make, you know, because that can make kids feel so strange, you know, if they’ve got to do extra work or somebody’s fussing about them. So how do you do that? 

Nicola Maytum:
Investing in your people, investing in your staff? Because it sounds cliched, but great teachers, great teaching elicits great learning. So if you are a great teacher, you are naturally inclusive. You know, how to bring on every child in your class, it is quite a skill. So for me, I’ve always placed great importance on my staff and their ongoing professional training. And that was what was so great, actually, about the company that I work for now is that they’ve invested in me, my ongoing training, and to invest not only financially in the course that we did, but in my time away from the company. So, yeah, invest in your staff not only in their ongoing training, but also in their own well being. Yeah, that’s critical. You want people to be happy in their job. 

Nicola Maytum:
If they’re happy in their work place, if they’re happy in their workspace, then they’re going to deliver better lessons. 

Jeff Johnson:
Right. That fulfillment is just going to spill over into everybody that they come in contact with and everything that they do. Oh, I totally agree. Yeah, it’s wonderful. So. Which certainly takes a lot of courage to put the time in and find the right teachers and love on these kids in the most efficient and proactive sort of a way and that sort of thing. Who is, who inspires you with courage? When you think about courageous people, who do you think about? 

Nicola Maytum:
I think about my family. I mean, we’re very close. We’re very close. I take a lot of inspiration from my mother and my sister. My sister’s got a very stressful, A huge job investing in life sciences. So. So yeah, she’s. She’s quite high profile and she works incredibly hard, but she’s still such a nice person, a balanced person. She’s not afraid to put her head above the parapet either. Yeah, yeah. It must be something, the Morgan Jeans, they call it. 

Jeff Johnson:
A boldness. And you say your mother has that too, huh? 

Nicola Maytum:
My mother has that too, yeah. She’s. She’s in her 80s now, but she’s still active. She’s still feisty. 

Jeff Johnson:
Is she? 

Nicola Maytum:
Yeah. Good woman. 

Jeff Johnson:
Do you think everybody. Do you think everybody has the opportunity to be a courageous person? Or do you think that’s something that like. Like the nuance of you being remarkable in education? Do you think that it’s a quality that you’re born with, or do you think everybody has courage? 

Nicola Maytum:
What’s your mind on? 

Jeff Johnson:
Tough question. This is why I say I only invite smart people. So I give myself license to ask these really hard questions. 

Nicola Maytum:
Yeah, I think there’s something in everyone. There’s. I think there’s courage in everyone. It’s, it’s whether you’ve been supported to, you know, by your family, by, by the People around you to develop the confidence to be courageous. I think everybody’s got that potential. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. 

Nicola Maytum:
And too many people are just put down and they lose their voice. 

Jeff Johnson:
Which speaks to your inclusivity. Exactly. You know, I. You’re talking about being able to call out the courage and somebody who might feel like they’re not. They’re a little sheepish or they’re a little afraid to take that next step and you can say, no, you’ve got courage in you. And. 

Nicola Maytum:
Absolutely, absolutely, you know, everybody’s got. And I truly believe this, everybody’s got something special about them. It’s not just about, you know, of course, in my field education, it’s not just about qualifications, it’s not just about, you know, those who get the best grades, go. Go to university. There’s more to life than university. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. 

Nicola Maytum:
So there’s a special something in everyone. We just need to help them find it. 

Jeff Johnson:
Great answer, Nicola. Great answer. Okay, so I want to come down to the question. I’m sure I’m going to have a couple questions on the other side of this. I apologize. I don’t want to keep you all day. So here we asked the question, what’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And everybody’s got answer to that question. So let me put that to you right now, Nicola. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? 

Nicola Maytum:
The second most courageous thing I’ve ever done was taking on a school in special measures. So, special measures. In the uk, we have inspectors who inspect schools, called Ofsted, the government inspection regime. And this school, very difficult. Well, a deprived community, but a wonderful community, a very noble community. People who live there are very proud of where they live, but it’s a challenging place to be. And so the. The second most courageous thing I ever did was take on that headship. The. The most courageous thing I ever did was. Was stay in the school after we took it out with special measures. So, you know, it took two years to turn the school around, get it into a really good place. And all the advice I got was, move on, move on to the next headship. And I said, no, it’s not. 

Nicola Maytum:
The job’s not done. You don’t just move on. And then. Because with some schools, you know, they ride the wave of doing well with Ofsted and then they drop again. And I said, no, it’s important that we consistently develop the school over time. 

Jeff Johnson:
This was in a. This was in a. Excuse my vernacular, this was in a bad neighborhood. The school or a Challenge? 

Nicola Maytum:
Yeah, it had a bad reputation. It, it had a, a challenge. I’ve used that word a lot, haven’t I? A challenging reputation. Okay, so there’s high unemployment, you know, you’re talking generational unemployment. 

Jeff Johnson:
And, and you got recruited to come to the school. 

Nicola Maytum:
I did, I did. It’s the proudest thing I’ve. Wow. I’ve done. I’ve still got a great soft spot for my first headship but it’s, I suppose being courageous is were a single academy, a single school, so weren’t part of a bigger group of schools which is important if you’re going to get support, both, you know, resources, training and so I had to work really hard, a lot of outreach, a lot of working with other schools in the local area to actually provide an informal network because we didn’t have a formal one and that was, that was really important in its success and I’m still proud actually that the heads group, the head teachers group that was set up then is still very active and we’ve got a group of schools, a disparate group of schools, including grammar schools, comprehensive in an affluent area. 

Nicola Maytum:
This school that is still very challenging and it really is networking in action. 

Jeff Johnson:
Were you hesitant to take it over or how did that happen? That little. Because I’m curious if that’s the point. Probably there’s courage throughout the whole thing because you mentioned the courage of staying but what, you must have been a little trepidatious, a little hesitant to take the head ship to begin with. 

Nicola Maytum:
Yes, yes, I was, I thought about it long and hard but it comes back to my moral purpose which always has been in education. It’s, you know, everybody deserves the best education and maybe, you know, I hope I’m not being too big headed but it’s, I wanted to be one of the team that could make that difference. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. 

Nicola Maytum:
You know, it’s not about the individual, you know, don’t get me wrong, it’s, it’s not me as an individual, it’s me being part of a team. And, and if you’ve all got that shared purpose, you can really achieve a lot. Right? 

Jeff Johnson:
No, I don’t see any arrogance in that at all. What, what’s exciting about that is you having the vision to say it’s going to take a team and it’s going to take individual team members with these kind of talents and I Know that I can bring something here and make a difference. That’s a response again, God given gifts and the kind of, you know, the stuff that you have inside of you. So that’s an interesting thing. 

Nicola Maytum:
It might have been naivety. It might have been naivety, you know the wonders of youth. You think you can change the world and then, and then you realize very quickly, oh, this is going to take some time. 

Jeff Johnson:
And it took a couple years to turn it around. 

Nicola Maytum:
Yeah, yeah. And it took, it took about six years to really get it into a good place. And then I brokered its move into a multi academy trust which was the best thing for the school because schools like that, they can’t remain isolated. 

Jeff Johnson:
Or it would go back to what it was. 

Nicola Maytum:
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. 

Jeff Johnson:
So did you, was there a point along the way where you thought five minutes into it, this is a stupid idea, something completely different. 

Nicola Maytum:
You. It must have been, it was. I mean there were moments when you are absolutely exhausted and you know, you’re regularly doing 14 hour days and you do. Yeah, there were moments when I’d put my head in my hands and say to myself, why? But then you just come back to, you know, I was very lucky with my childhood. I had, we had lots of books around us. I had parents who supported me just fully and some families struggle, some families don’t have, you know, the wherewithal to provide that kind of environment for their children. And so it’s part of my job, part of our job to do that. And that’s what I always came back to. 

Nicola Maytum:
So we have, in the UK we have something called Pupil premium, which means that some of the poorest sections in society, they have, you get additional funding from the government for those children. Now in many schools, Pupil Premium children are about, oh, I don’t know, 15% of your cohort. Now my school, it was 65% were in receipt of free school meals. So that was another thing just, you know, reflecting on those schools I was in, nutrition was really important as well and we invested a lot in the school canteen and we had a brilliant chef. But all of the schools that, you know, the first one I took on and then the schools that I led later, it was all about that wraparound support for the children and their families, including nutrition. So you know, why, you just come back to that? 

Nicola Maytum:
I know why I’m in it. I mean I’m in it for the people. 

Jeff Johnson:
You’re wonderful. So the courage to take on that job and then the courage to stay in that job. I think everybody that’s listening can relate. They hear what you’re talking about with 65% of the people that are really in need and then you’re providing those kind of things. But it’s, but it’s hard along the way. Where did that kind of selfless empathy come from? I mean, I don’t want to put you up on a pedestal and do a thing like that, but legitimately, Nicola, I mean this is, that’s a wonderful thing. I mean people want to be educated by someone like you know, so where did that come from in you? 

Nicola Maytum:
I think my family, the society I was brought up in South Wales, it was a very democratic place to be. Socialist with a small S. So, you know, communities in Wales are very tight knit and people put a lot of stall on education. In fact, you know, many Welsh, there are lots of Welsh teachers, you know, in England. But yeah, I think it was, it was just the society around me. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. 

Nicola Maytum:
That that meant I just wanted to be fair by everybody. Yeah. 

Jeff Johnson:
That maybe you got that very deep training just from being around. I can’t imagine it’s all by osmosis. I’m sure that there’s something special inside of you. But how does that, how was it to leave that school then, to be a part of such a courageous endeavor to go in and see real change, see your fingerprints on. 

Nicola Maytum:
Yeah. 

Jeff Johnson:
And then walk back out of it. 

Nicola Maytum:
I think to be fair, as a head teacher, you’ve got a shelf life in schools like that. You’ve only got so much energy and it’s full on and you know the time when it is, you need to move on. And I progressed in my career. I then became a director of education. But it was time for somebody else to take up the mantle. Yeah, yeah. You’ve only got so much energy. 

Jeff Johnson:
So you were kind of saving your life a little bit getting back out of there. But that’s again, that’s a selfless endeavor too because I, I mean I challenge myself with sticking around things too long and I think people do that in their careers as well where they’re like, okay, this is known to me now, maybe it’s a little bit easy. So again, another courageous thing for you to. Even if you’re doing it because you can’t keep the pace up anymore, it’s still courageous to excise yourself from that and go do something else. 

Nicola Maytum:
I suppose so. I suppose so. I don’t, I mean I didn’t Think about it like that. You know, I was more thinking the school needs somebody else now to, to take it on and take the team forward. Yeah, but yes, I suppose. 

Jeff Johnson:
So how does that courageous endeavor that you had with that school redound to what it is that you’re doing now for art? 

Nicola Maytum:
I should have got these questions earlier, shouldn’t I? 

Jeff Johnson:
I’m, I’m telling you, these are tough questions because I think, you know, all of our experiences become cumulative. So, I mean, yes. Is it a confidence building thing or is it a. I’ve seen it happen once and I want to go see it happen again. Or an individual child that you saw go through that system before and you’re like, I’m looking for that person because I know there’s so many out there. I mean, what informs you now? 

Nicola Maytum:
Yeah, the opportunity to start a school from scratch, you know, that’s very rare. And, you know, coming up with even a school name, you know, designing the rooms properly, that, oh, I’ve seen so many school buildings, new school buildings in the past where they make daft mistakes, you know, like not even putting the. Enough toilets in, you know, lavatories in a building. To the vision, mission and values, actually creating a culture before a school even opens. I mean, that. Crikey, is that courageous. It’s certainly a wonderful opportunity and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed that. You know, through your own purpose, you can, you can shape a new school or groups of schools, which is what we’re doing, I suppose that is quite courageous because that puts a lot of pressure, a lot of onus on you that you get the culture right from the start. 

Nicola Maytum:
And, and that’s been absolutely fascinating working with this company. You know, you think things are obvious. As an educator, you think things are obvious and then working with a group of people who, to them it’s not obvious, It’s. They say everybody’s been to school, so everybody’s an expert on education. But you need the educator in the room to support the people in the C suite, to kind of take that forward. 

Jeff Johnson:
This is going to create the most enriching environment for the students. And it’s got nuance to it. And you don’t appreciate that, but. Yeah, but you do because of your experience and where you’ve been. I think you’re, I think, Nicola, I’m so grateful that you’ve come on the podcast today and I think your example, which again, I hope I’m not slobbering on you too Much. Forgive me, but it’s a very selfless example, and you characterized it very well, and you’ve been brave even in answering my really difficult questions. So I think your example stands on its own for our listeners. 

Jeff Johnson:
But I’m curious, what kind of advice would you give to people about courage and calling out that courage inside of them if maybe they’re looking at an opportunity to jump into a business that they might be able to turn around or have real impact in and they’re not sure if they should do it or not or what would you, how would you encourage people with courage? 

Nicola Maytum:
Well, life’s very short, and if you’ve got, you just got to take the most of the opportunities that life affords you know, it’s, if you believe in what you’re doing, you just go for it. I mean, what could go wrong? But would you. You don’t want to live life with regrets and, and thinking, what if, what? You know, oh, I had the chance to take that career move or that life move or that family move, and I didn’t do it. That. Just don’t be like that. You know, it’s easy for me to say, of course it is. But don’t regret. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. 

Nicola Maytum:
And, and also, you know, if you really believe in something, don’t be afraid that you might be ridiculed for it because actually there are people who absolutely believe in you, and the people who ridicule are just not worth it. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s very well said, Nicola. In my, in my Christian faith, God teaches us that we’re supposed to number our days so that we’ll use them wisely. I heard what you said loud and clear, and I think that’s right. There’s another one of our Supreme Court justices here in the United States, Amy Coney Barrett, when she was being vetted for the Supreme Court interviewer, was talking to her about some difficult decisions that she’s had to take in her life. And she made a comment, she just. Exactly what you said. She said life is difficult, very difficult. But she said it’s very short and not in a morbid sort of a way, but in a realistic sort of a way that, you know, it’s worth taking chances on things. And that’s what, that’s where the richness comes from. And you’ve characterized that very well. 

Nicola Maytum:
Absolutely. And it’s. Was it Obama said something about don’t expect paraphrasing, don’t expect change to just happen. Be the change. You know, if you want there to be change. You’ve got to do it. You’ve got to stand up and be counted. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. Yeah. Well said, Nicola. Thank you so much for joining us today. It’s such a pleasure and I can’t wait to see. See you shortly for our graduation ceremony with the little hat on and the thing and the. Yeah. 

Nicola Maytum:
Yes, yes. Gotta thinking about, oh, what white shirt shall I wear and what black. What’s it called? Sub Fuse or something? 

Jeff Johnson:
Sub Fuse, Yeah. The graduation gown with the funny. 

Nicola Maytum:
Yeah. And the mortar board and. Yeah. Looking forward to it. And I’m very much looking forward to seeing you again. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yes, thank you, ma’am, for being on the program today. 

Nicola Maytum:
Oh, it’s my pleasure. Thank you. 

Outro:
Thank you for joining us today on Courageous. If you’d like to hear more about the work and ministry being done at Crossroads Apologetics, please visit our home on the web@crossroadsapologetics.org would you or. Or someone you know like to be featured on Courageous? Send us an email at infoossroadsapologetics.com or infoorossroadsapologetics.org telling us about the most courageous thing you’ve ever done.