Emmett Takes the Mic: An Interview with Dad

In this special episode of the Courageous Crossroads podcast, Jeff Johnson, CEO of Johnson Machine Works and executive coach, is interviewed by his son, Emmett Johnson. The tables turn as Emmett, Jeff’s witty and candid 19-year-old son, asks probing questions about courage, bravery, and personal growth. Jeff shares intimate stories about his journey to sobriety, the bravest people he knows, and the importance of faith in overcoming life’s challenges. This heartfelt and humorous father-son conversation offers listeners a unique glimpse into Jeff’s life and the values that guide him.

Thank you for listening! We hope you feel inspired and encouraged by our conversation today. If you did, be sure to share this episode with others.

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See you in the next episode! Be blessed!

Full Transcript

Intro:
Welcome to Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics, a look into what motivates us to step out in courage and the everyday bravery of men and women like you. In each episode, we hear a personal story of bravery centered around this. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And now, your host, founder of Crossroads Apologetics, Jeff Johnson. 

Jeff Johnson:
Okay, everybody, we’re turning the tables on the Courageous Crossroads podcast today. Today, instead of interviewing somebody else, I am being interviewed. And who is doing the interviewing of Jeff Johnson? 

Emmett Johnson:
I’m at Johnson, his second favorite son, but he’s here and he’s available, so he’s going to be interviewing. 

Jeff Johnson:
Why do you say second favorite son? 

Emmett Johnson:
I just need a balance of quality throughout the family, so it’d be rude for me to say I’m the favorite. 

Jeff Johnson:
Okay, Emmett, tell him age. So people know who’s throwing the punches, who’s doing the interviewing. 

Emmett Johnson:
Hopefully they don’t hear the pen clicking. So I’m going to be doing that a lot, but. 19 years old. 

Jeff Johnson:
And what are you doing? 

Emmett Johnson:
Still live at home? I’m a heavy equipment tech trying desperately to move out, but a lot of patience comes with that. So. Only kid that didn’t go to college? Pretty much it. 

Jeff Johnson:
Why are you trying to move out? Please stay. 

Emmett Johnson:
Stay. You gotta practice independence eventually. Okay, Think in your head. If you were 19 and you didn’t go to the University of Iowa, you stayed at home and didn’t go to school during the year, and you weren’t home for only the summer, imagine you’re home for the entire time. Would you enjoy that? 

Jeff Johnson:
Okay, I understand, Grandpa Johnson. Okay, I understand. Well, I love your grandpa, but. Yeah, it would be a bit much. It would be a bit much. Okay, so. 

Emmett Johnson:
And I love my parents. Don’t. 

Jeff Johnson:
Well, I was gonna say, this is. 

Emmett Johnson:
Twist the words there. I love my parents. 

Jeff Johnson:
Okay? This is not an indictment on Jeff and Danielle. I mean, you enjoy your time at home. It’s just. 

Emmett Johnson:
Okay, it’s just like a change. Like when you change your room, like, during the wintertime or something, you want to decorate it different or decorate the house. Danielle does that a lot. It’s the same principle. You just want some change. And I’ve been doing this for 19 years. 

Jeff Johnson:
A friend of mine suggested a while ago, Jeff, you know what would be interesting is if your children interviewed you on the Courageous Crossroads podcast instead of you interviewing somebody else. So we’re taking a little interlude here to interview Jeff, and I’m already doing too much of the driving, so I’m gonna stop right now. 

Emmett Johnson:
I’m the MC here. 

Jeff Johnson:
And flip it around, Emmett. It’s your show. 

Emmett Johnson:
Okay, you need to explain your title, age. I’m sure these people have already heard that information for me, but. Okay, I’m gonna be formal. 

Jeff Johnson:
No, I’m Jeff Johnson. I’m 56 years old. I’m the CEO of a family business, Johnson Machine Works. I’m also the. What do you call it? Sole proprietor of an executive coaching firm called Artists and Writers. And I also oversee the 501C3 called Crossroads Apologetics, under whose banner the courageous Crossroads Podcast is being done. So you can look up more about me at jmworks.com or artistsandwriters.com or crossroads apologetics.org and I, married to Ms. Danielle, 27 years, love of my life. And we have four amazing children. Each one of them are my favorites. Meredith, Noah, Hannah, and Emmett. And I’ve got a wonderful son in law, Logan. And yeah, a lot of other people affiliated with the family that are dear to me. I’m happy. 

Emmett Johnson:
Who’s your favorite family affiliate? Everybody. Tilly. 

Jeff Johnson:
Tilly, Russ. If you had to pick Zoe, Mason, everybody. I can’t pick just one. 

Emmett Johnson:
Okay, well, we’re gonna start this one off with the very broad subjects, then we’re gonna narrow down as we go, get a little bit more specific as we get deeper into the podcast. How do you define true courage? You have a list of the questions, too, but I’m not going to follow any of these questions, so. Okay, you’re going to be. This is stranded here. 

Jeff Johnson:
Here we go. This is Jeff. 

Emmett Johnson:
Yeah. 

Jeff Johnson:
Getting rid of his questions. 

Emmett Johnson:
Might as well. 

Jeff Johnson:
And abandoning himself to the goodness of the interviewer. How do I define true courage? I think courage is when you have faith in yourself and you have faith in God and you trust him and you take the next step not knowing how it’s going to turn out, but you know that it’s the right next step to take. I feel like that’s courage. 

Emmett Johnson:
And then what do you see? What do you see true bravery as? Like, when in my head, just an example, when I think of bravery, I think of like a Seal Team 6 member or someone in the army. That’s just what I grew up hearing. I understand you can be brave in any aspect of your life, but that’s the image that gets put in my head. What image gets put in your head when you think of bravery? 

Jeff Johnson:
I think that’s right. I’ve got a picture here by my desk of Daniel and the lion’s den. And I think about that as True bravery, you know, standing in front of a bunch of hungry lions and not knowing that God’s going to save you, but trusting that God’s going to save you, that’s brave, you know, where you don’t understand the outcome. It’s, it’s similar to courage. But when I hear the word bravery, I do think about bullets flying. I think about real physical danger and. 

Emmett Johnson:
Doing it because you can have mental bravery, right? Stuff that can only go on between you and the voice in your head. But it’s still maybe being brave, but to the outside world maybe it was just a normal act or whatever. I think I have slight bits of bravery every single day with just the voice in my head and stuff I do on a day to day basis. Maybe you’re nervous asking someone a question or something where, if you could give yourself a personal testament, where do you think you’ve been the most brave in your life? 

Jeff Johnson:
The most brave? 

Emmett Johnson:
Are you asking me a week or a subject in general? 

Jeff Johnson:
Are you asking me the question what’s the bravest thing I’ve ever done? 

Emmett Johnson:
Or yeah. Or do you think there’s something you always take a leap of bravery in no matter what? Like something you’re scared of but you have to do? 

Jeff Johnson:
I’d like to, I’d like to think that I’m very brave when I trust in God implicitly and you just feel that feeling, that understanding that God’s pointing you in a direction and it doesn’t make any worldly sense, but you go ahead and do it anyway. I would like to think that’s where I’m the bravest. But if you’re asking me that question, what’s the bravest thing I’ve ever done? It would have to go back to my time in college when I put the plug in the jug and I sobered up. I was on a bad road of drinking and using and I was all about that, not trying to hurt anybody, but definitely trying to make myself feel better all the time. And all it did was make an absolute wreck of my life. And I didn’t know what else to do. 

Jeff Johnson:
I didn’t know how to fix the situation. I didn’t know how to stop. I didn’t know how to make different choices, you know, with all of the things that I was confronted with. And so I reached out for help with a 12 in a 12 step program that a friend of mine led me to. And through that endeavor I completely changed every aspect of my life or God did. However you want to look at it. And that really feels like the bravest thing I’ve ever done. 

Emmett Johnson:
Now, you can go back to that same example, or you can pick something else, but how do you mentally and emotionally prepare yourself for, like, when you know you’re gonna do something brave? You’re gonna have to be brave going into this. Like, I’m sure having kids or something, you know, being a dad for the first time, you had to be very brave going into that because you had to be a father figure. Now there wasn’t any more screwing around. 

Jeff Johnson:
Right. 

Emmett Johnson:
So how do you mentally and emotionally prepare for. For a situation where you know you’re gonna have to be brave, where you. 

Jeff Johnson:
Know you’re have to gonna be brave? That all comes down to faith. You know, Emma, through sobriety, I was introduced to a God of my understanding. And then I started to chase that understanding down to really know who it was that I was putting my faith in. Started reading the Bible, started spending time in prayer, started spending time in church. Surrounded myself with a group of people that were a lot further along down the road in my perception than I was. And I was asking them a lot of questions. And so I recognized that every day in my life presented an opportunity for me to be brave or to exhibit courage. But that courage all came from God. 

Jeff Johnson:
So, yeah, being a father for the first time is a scary prospect, because the first time any father’s put in that situation, first time somebody has a baby born for the first time, by definition, they’ve never been there before, so they don’t know what’s on the other side of it. So they have to be brave. They have to exhibit courage. And what I did is I spent time on my knees and I spent time praying, asking God, lord, help me. Show me the next right thing that you want me to do and give me courage and strength to take those next steps. And I learned a lot of that posture in the recovery program dealing with all facets of life. Does that answer the question? 

Emmett Johnson:
Yeah, that’s a good answer. Okay. Just like multiple people in the state of Iowa. And I guess we can say international now, since you’ve been to Oxford and done school of whatever. A lot of people see you as their mentor. And I know for a fact you have people that you look up to that are your mentors. But who is the most courageous person you’ve ever known? And I’m gonna. I’m gonna be biased here. You can’t say God or Jesus, I guess. Yeah, you have to stray away from that. But out of. And it doesn’t even have to be your mentors. I guess it could be a story you’ve heard, but who’s the most courageous person you know? And then there’s a follow up, too. And why do you admire their bravery? 

Jeff Johnson:
There was. Well, I want to be careful because I want to. I want to make sure I maintain anonymity here. The. I’m gonna answer it two ways. There’s two people that I’m gonna give you one of them. And honestly, I’m blessed to be able to think about a lot of people. There’s a lot of faces and names that are running through my head right now, but I’ll just pick two. One of them is a mentor of mine that shepherded me in the recovery program when I was sober, I’d been sober for a period of time. And there’s a couple of steps in the program that ask us to make a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourself. Essentially, you’re listing every single thing that you’ve ever done wrong in your life, all of your sins, okay? 

Jeff Johnson:
And then the step right after that is where you share that with God, yourself, and another human being. And for the longest time, inside of my recovery program, I didn’t want to do that because I didn’t want to look at the wreckage of my past. Everybody’s done stuff that they’re ashamed of. Everybody’s done stuff that they just wince when they go back and look at their life and what mistakes I’ve made and all that sort of thing. The Bible says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and it’s in that context. So there were just a couple things that there was no way I was ever going to tell anybody. We always say our secrets keep us sick. So it can make you crazy when you’re just carrying that around. 

Jeff Johnson:
You know, you hear the analogy of, you know, carrying your sins like they’re big cinder blocks in a backpack. You know, you dragging those around with you the whole time, and it weighs you down. Even when you’re in good times and bad times and when you’re starting families and having babies and being successful at work and all that stuff, you still get this pack of stuff, indiscretions, and you haven’t let go of it. And there was one person in the recovery program that I chose as a sponsor, a shepherd for me to walk me through the program, who had the pedigree that I thought could handle what it was that I was going to tell him. And I remember being at a Meeting one night and I was full of tears. 

Jeff Johnson:
And I had been sober for eight years, but I hadn’t done anything about letting go of this pack with this stuff in it. And I was scared. And I just. I was at that crossroads where I thought, if I don’t do something about this. I mean, honestly, Emmett, I was thinking, I’m gonna kill myself. I wasn’t gonna go back out and drink. I’d made up my mind that I wasn’t gonna do that. I was just bullheaded enough that wasn’t gonna be an option. But I was absolutely insane because I was carrying this stuff around. And I remember this guy told me, he said, you just gotta. You gotta cough it up, Jeff. And he was a big, tough guy, really tough guy, covered in tattoos and just strong man. 

Jeff Johnson:
And he put his arm around my neck and he squeezed it and he said, you’re coming out to my house now. Give me a date and a dime. So I did, and I ended up going out to his place. And I spent nine hours with him one day while he so graciously let me. I can’t imagine what a painful experience that might have been for him just listening to me garble up all of the stuff out of my past. But I had some house cleaning to do. And I told him everything, Emmett. Every single thing, every nasty thing that I’d ever done to anybody that I could think of. I mean, really, the analogy is just that cleaning out the house, every closet, every nook and cranny, detailing, every nasty bathroom, all that kind of stuff. 

Jeff Johnson:
I mean, I dredged it all up and I gave it to him. And he told me something that I’ll never forget. He said, jeff, I don’t judge you. And he said, God loves you. And he said, I did that stuff too. And man, when he did that of this weight left me. And I always think back on him as being one of the bravest guys that I can think of to be able to receive that kind of a download from me. And I wasn’t the only one. I mean, heard that from a lot of other people too. But to be able to do that and to be able to hold that with such confidence and tenderness, you know, I knew he wasn’t going to go tell anybody on me, you know, and it was just a. It was so freeing. 

Jeff Johnson:
And I’ve come to realize after that everybody, like I said in the beginning, everybody has that kind of stuff. And I was just stuck because I thought I was the only one. And the reality Is everybody deals with it. Yeah. So that was one. And the other one is, without a doubt, Emma is your mother. She’s one of the most courageous, one of the bravest people that I know, because when her and I got married in short order, and I won’t chronicle all of it, but it was the passing of her father at a young age, and she’s starting a family and becoming a new mom. And then it was the passing of her mother shortly after that, and then a handful of other family members. 

Jeff Johnson:
And we just early on in our marriage, we experienced a lot of loss from your mother’s side of the family. And she walked through that with integrity and not ease because it was hard. I mean, there were a lot of nights in hospice and the heartache was just unbelievable. But the kind of courage and the kind of bravery that your mom just showed through that whole entire endeavor was just unbelievable. Not only, not to mention, you know, having kids and taking care of the home and being everything that God called her to be. I mean, she’s just one of the bravest, most courageous people that I know. 

Emmett Johnson:
I’ll ditto that one. 

Jeff Johnson:
There you go. 

Emmett Johnson:
Ditto that one. People that listen to this and know Danielle, I know all the siblings listen to this, and everyone at home has probably seen Danielle in one nature or another. But she wears all these fancy clothes now, wears all these nice things, goes on yachts, parties in Florida with her friends, does whatever she wants to do now. But when you peel back all the layers, she is tough as nails. I mean, she’s meaner than a bull. 

Jeff Johnson:
Geez, your mom’s wonderful. 

Emmett Johnson:
She is amazing. Just like how that mentor dragged you out of a bad place. What advice would you give someone who is struggling to find their own courage? Maybe they’re in a rut. I know you. I know you’ve helped out a lot of people. I’ve only met a handful of them. But I know you’ve talked to all sorts of people around the world and wherever you go, I mean, it seems like there’s always someone that knows you from. From some point. And I know those people have a hard time finding courage, whether they’re in a 12 point program or something else. 

Emmett Johnson:
But what advice do you give those people that struggle to find their own courage or struggle to find who they are, or maybe it’s tough for them to be brave in that moment, to step away from the drink or step away from the drug or. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah, well, you know, my faith is everything, son. You know that about your mother and I. And so I spend daily. I spend time in spiritual disciplines of prayer and journaling and meditation, you know, just listening to God and reading Scripture and that sort of thing. And the Bible says that wise men seek counsel. It says that. And it also says, you know, Jesus tells us to cast our cares upon him. So there’s two things right there. That’s the advice that I would give people that are wanting to find that courage and wanting to find that bravery. God invites us to cast our cares on him. 

Jeff Johnson:
So whatever is going on in your life, if you define it as a care, whether it’s a relationship that’s gone sideways, a job that you’re not so sure that you should be in, or something that you celebrate, you know, you got a new baby at home, and all the questions that come along with that, you know, those are all cares. And Jesus says that we’re supposed to cast those cares on him, so hand those off to God and trust him to do something with it. The other thing that the Bible says, like I mentioned, is the wise men seek counsel. So get yourself around a bunch of mature Christians, a bunch of people that you respect, a bunch of people that you trust, and ask them what they would do. 

Jeff Johnson:
I’m blessed to be around a lot of strong men that I can ask those questions of. And heavens knows, I ask your mother that all the time. What do you think? What’s your opinion? And Proverbs 27:17 says, as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. So that’s what happens. We end up learning from each other and growing from each other and getting stronger in that interaction. So wise men seek counsel. Get some smart people around you and let god. 

Emmett Johnson:
Okay, and then back to your. You were saying in the middle of your last story about the mentors and whatnot, that you’re being bullheaded or whatever, just ramming into walls. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yep. 

Emmett Johnson:
How do you balance courage with caution in your decision making? Because sometimes courage can come off as. As being selfish or as trying to act tough and you want to be cautious about where you’re acting tougher. You know, your mentor, he opened up. He wasn’t like, oh, you’re not anything. I did worse than you. I. He wasn’t trying to one up you. He just let it all out and showed you that you’re not alone where you were at. 

Jeff Johnson:
Right. This is a great question. Let me answer it like this. My mentor taught me early on that if I was in a meeting or in some kind of social engagement and there was somebody in that Meeting or engagement that was grinding my guts. Somebody that I just couldn’t stand, that I needed to go meet them, shake their hand and learn something about them because they were probably exhibiting a character defect that I had myself, that I didn’t like about myself, and that’s why I was having such a bad reaction to it. And what I’ve learned from that experiment, because I’ve done that, what I’ve learned from that is that I have issues with pride and with ego, sorry to say. 

Jeff Johnson:
So if somebody’s in a meeting or somebody’s in some kind of a social endeavor and they’re full of themselves and they’re acting all prideful and egotistical and arrogant and stuff like that, I react poorly to that. And it’s because I need to take a look at myself, because I need to get myself right sized. So now I’m losing my train of thought. Go back to what the original question was. 

Emmett Johnson:
How do you balance courage and cautious in your decision making? 

Jeff Johnson:
Aha. So that’s how. That’s one way that I do it. So I don’t want to. I want to recognize that I am fallible too, that I’ve got character defects that I need to check. So it gets me back to the wise men seek counsel. I don’t just act or react, but I’m cautious about that. I ponder, I think, I watch, I sit, I pray, I meditate, I get people around me to counsel me. Am I seeing this the right way? Yeah. No, Jeff, I don’t think you’re seeing this right way. I had a friend of mine one time who told me, or excuse me, I told him I’d had a falling out with mentor of mine. And I told this friend of mine, I said, you know, I think I’m just not supposed to be around a bunch of people right now. 

Jeff Johnson:
I think I’m just, you know, God’s telling me. I told him, I said, God’s telling me it’s just me and him. I just need to hang out with the Lord for a while and just focus on him and blah, blah. And my friend said, yeah, that doesn’t sound right. I said, what do you mean? And he went back to the early parts in the Bible. He said, the first time that God says something is not good is when man was alone. And he said, jeff, God doesn’t want us to be alone. He doesn’t want us to be isolated. He wants to be in community and fellowship with other believers. So he was the wise counsel that I sought in that endeavor. And I might have isolated myself and just been alone for a while if I hadn’t asked him the question. 

Jeff Johnson:
And he was pointing out that my thinking was a little bit off. So that stuff like that helps. You know what I mean? 

Emmett Johnson:
Yeah, yeah. This is kind of a lame question, but is there a particular book? I know you read a ton of books. We’re sitting in your layer and there’s just books everywhere. And coming from his son, I don’t think he reads any of them. I know you’re a big. A big movie geek. You watch a lot of movies and then stories. You’re writing some stories of your own. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yep. 

Emmett Johnson:
Is there one that isn’t a personal story but a story of someone else that’s inspired you to be more brave in your day to day life? 

Jeff Johnson:
Oh, my goodness. Books on bravery that I’m reading are books that inspire me to bravery. I. You’re not going to like the answer. I mean, my first response is going to be the Bible, because there’s so many stories of bravery. Yeah, there’s so many stories of bravery that are all throughout the Bible. I’m looking right behind you at a book that you claim that I have not read, but I actually have read. It’s Stephen Ambrose’s biography of D Day. 

Emmett Johnson:
And that’s a big book that’s like a two inch, that’s. 

Jeff Johnson:
And that’s full of faith and that’s full of courage and all of those sorts of things. There’s a lot of life stories, books on Abraham Lincoln, books on just all kinds of people. But it probably all goes back to the Bible. You know, the stories of bravery that are exhibited in there, people that are trusting in God. You know, the line in Hebrew says that without faith it’s impossible to please God. And faith is not doing things without evidence that God is going to work, but it’s doing things without knowing exactly how it’s going to come out. And the Bible is full of that. So that’s probably the book, I would say the Bible. 

Emmett Johnson:
Well, there’s pretty good betting odds that we could have guessed that one. 

Jeff Johnson:
These are good questions. Emma. You’re good at the interviewing. Peace. 

Emmett Johnson:
Is there a piece of wisdom about courage or about bravery that you would pass on to. Well, everyone listening to the podcast, I guess, like if they could take one thing home with them today, pretend they’re here in person in like a class. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah, the thing I would say is just know that God loves you and that he’s for you and that he trusts you or that you can trust him, you know what I mean? And that you’re not in this alone. That’s the thing. I guess when I. When I found my faith, when I recognized that Jesus was my Lord and Savior, and all the stuff that I went through with all of that recovery stuff, the main thing that came out of that was recognizing that I was never, ever alone. You know what I mean? So any situation that I go into, I’m never alone. And quoting a lot of scripture. I mean, para quoting a lot of scripture. But there’s another verse that talks about how we’re supposed to pray continually. In Thessalonians, it says, pray continually. 

Jeff Johnson:
And I think if you followed me around throughout the course of the day, and a lot of my Christian brothers that I lean on would say the same thing. I’m praying all the time, you know, thank you, God. You know, I take the garbage down to the curb and I turn around and I walk it back to the house. And I’m seeing the house all lit up at night, saying, thank you, Lord, for the house, thank you for my family, thank you for all this. I walk into a meeting at work or a meeting with somebody new or something like that. While I’m walking across the threshold of the door, I’m saying, lord, please help me. Show me how to be a good helper, show me how to ask good questions and be a blessing to others, all that sort of thing. 

Jeff Johnson:
So that’d be the. That would be the advice that I would give to people is just really trusting God and recognize that you’re never alone and that he’s for you and that you’ve got so many gifts that you’re meant to be a blessing unleashed on the world. And that’s not just me, that’s for absolutely everybody. Yeah. 

Emmett Johnson:
Okay. 

Jeff Johnson:
Is that a good answer? 

Emmett Johnson:
Yeah, it was a really good answer. We’re gonna sidetrack just a little bit. I mean, too much. It’s still on topic, but this is more for the future generations. And it’s really just a topic that I’m curious about, but a mentor. This is now just gonna seep into me and Jeff having a conversation. So sorry for everyone listening if it’s boring. But a mentor, like I said, for my generation and for future generations, the examples we have of a mentor is always like some old wizard looking guy that knows everything. And that’s what a mentor just pops up in my head. And I’m sure it does for plenty of other people my age. But a mentor doesn’t have to be. It doesn’t have to be someone older than you. 

Emmett Johnson:
A mentor could still be a friend or someone that’s just guiding you to the light, right? 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. Yeah. 

Emmett Johnson:
And I know God’s the best mentor for sure, because he’s always there. But a mentor doesn’t have to be this big barley guy that has tattoos head toe. That’ll really set you straight. You know, it can be a group of people setting you towards the right path or a group you found in church, or people encouraging you go to church. 

Jeff Johnson:
And my belief is that mentorship is different than marriage. You know, marriage follows a covenant, God’s covenant. That I told your mother that I do and that I will, and then I ain’t going nowhere. And she told me the same thing. So that’s a covenant. So we’re in it for the long haul. That’s forever. That’s done. Okay. Mentorship, I don’t think, is a covenantal relationship. It’s a guide. It’s a help. It’s that sort of thing. So I could say, throughout the course of my life, I’ve had a number of different mentors. You know, I’d like to think my dad’s been a mentor to me for my whole life. But there were times when I was younger when I particularly leaned on him for his advice. 

Jeff Johnson:
And then there were other times when I needed career advice or I needed advice with how to run my business or start a new endeavor. And there were a different number of people that came around and moved in and out of my life during that period. I’ve had spiritual mentors. I remember a guy a long time ago, he was another friend of mine that I met in recovery who was, you know what? You’re stereotyping. Early on, he was the old guy, and he was the first one that taught me how to read my Bible in a way that made sense to me. He told me that there were 31 chapters in the book of Proverbs in the Bible, and there were generally 31 days of the month. Some had fewer, but there were a lot of them with 31. 

Jeff Johnson:
And he said, read the chapter in Proverbs in the Bible. That’s commensurate with the day of the month. So if it’s the 14th of May, I would read the 14th chapter of Proverbs that day. And he said, read it with a highlighter and highlight all the way through and have a dictionary next to your Bible. So if there were words that you didn’t understand, you could look them up. And I did that. And he said, once you get through all 31 chapters, he said, the next month, just start over again. So he was a mentor with reading the Bible, and that really got me started with the whole thing. And he’s passed along, but he’s not a member of my life anymore. But now I have mentors that are different. Some of them are. Well, one of them in particular is not. 

Jeff Johnson:
He’s over on the east coast, and he’s the number one mentor that I have right now. But I’ve got other friends that I lean on from time to time, so I feel like I’m talking too much. But I’ll say this about mentors, and then I’ll hush. I think what you do is you pray about that. You ask God to bring people into your life that really speak into your life, and you hold that very loosely, and you’re just open to it, and then you follow good discernment and good judgment. Are there people that you respect? Are there people that you want to be like? You emulate, whether that’s a work or spirituality or just their loving kindness or the way that they carry themselves, Just kind of see what path they’re on and then follow them. 

Jeff Johnson:
There’s a quote that says, surround yourself with the best friends that you possibly can and then follow them only as far as they follow Christ. You know what I mean? So you don’t need to be having a lot of people around you that are not following Christ, in my opinion. This is the advice that I would give you, my son. I would say, find Christian people, Christian men in your life, and follow them only as far as they follow Christ. You know what I mean? 

Emmett Johnson:
Yeah. Well, that kind of answers all the questions I was thinking about. And whatever the guy’s name, he can cut this whole thing from the podcast, but the poem that’s written all over Johnson Machine Works, somebody said it couldn’t be done But Hugh of the Chuckle replied, yep. That he wouldn’t say so or somebody said it couldn’t be done but he. 

Jeff Johnson:
With a chuckle replied that maybe it couldn’t but he would be one who wouldn’t say so until he tried. So he buckled right in with a trace of a grin on his face if he worried, he hit it, actually, I have it. And he started to sing as he tackled the thing that couldn’t be done and he did it. 

Emmett Johnson:
That’s what I’m referring to. 

Jeff Johnson:
Somebody scoffed, oh, you’ll never do that. At least no one ever has done it. So he took off his coat and he took off his hat. And the first thing we knew he’d be done with a lift of his. 

Emmett Johnson:
Chin and a bit of a grin without any doubt or quit it. He started to sing as he tackled that thing that couldn’t be done and he did it. Then there’s a whole nother. 

Jeff Johnson:
No, finish it. 

Emmett Johnson:
There are thousands to tell you it couldn’t, it cannot be done. There are thousands to prophesy failure There are thousands to point out to you one by one the dangers that wait to assail you but just buckle right in with a bit of a grin Just take off your coat, go to and go to it just start to sing as you tackle that thing that can’t be done, you’ll do it. But in the very beginning it says someone said it couldn’t be done. But he with a chuckle replied that maybe it couldn’t but he wouldn’t be one. Or he would be one who wouldn’t say so till he tried. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yep. 

Emmett Johnson:
So if there’s. I’m just trying to think of like a personal. A personal situation where you have to use courage or you have to be brave in a certain situation. And a lot of the times, especially for my generation and people younger than me or even worse than me, but you’re sucked into your phone so far into social media. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. 

Emmett Johnson:
And the. The reality of it is there’s not a whole lot of Christian on social media. There’s not a whole lot of following God and being true to God and. And there’s thousands of people. There’s thousands of people that will say they’re Christians. They’ll say this, they’ll say that, because they know Christianity has a good perception behind it, that Christians are good, that Christians are loving, that Christians are epic and cool and sick, but they’re not actually about what Christianity means. So for someone that’s always deceived by social media and you see, you know, you see the stereotypical advertisement, that’s like saying you know something that sounds too good to be true. And you always see that person on social media that says they follow Christianity, but it just seems a little bit too good to be true. 

Emmett Johnson:
What I’m trying to get at here is how do you route or not rat out that just sounds bad. But how do you. How do you rat out the people that are really about the Christian faith? 

Jeff Johnson:
How do you discern who’s really about God and who’s not? 

Emmett Johnson:
And this is completely away from bravery and courage, but I think it’s a valuable lesson. I know Hannah posts on social media every Wednesday, when this podcast comes out, and I’m almost sure of it, that a ton of her classmates are watching it, which is college age students. And believe it or not, I’m a college age student, so they all have to have the same sort of idea as I do. But how do you. How do you find. How do you find the ones that are really about the Christian faith? 

Jeff Johnson:
Well, I’ve heard sermons get. This is a great question, Emmett, and I’m so glad that you’re asking it because I’ve heard sermons given before where they talk about discerning God’s will and hearing the voice of God and sensing God’s nearness and all of that sort of thing. And we all have that longing to have that experience. I had a friend of mine who told me one time that he, when he was a little boy, climbed up in a tree and he shouted at the top of the tree. He cried out and asked, God, show me. I want to hear your voice. I want to know that you’re here. He said, jeff, I didn’t hear anything. He climbed back down the tree. 

Jeff Johnson:
The first chapter in Romans talks about nature, talks about all of God’s creation being given to us so that nobody can say that they haven’t seen God. Right? So the answer to his question was actually the tree that he was climbing in. Yeah, right. We all want to know. We all want to hear the voice of God. We all want to know that he’s close. The I’ve heard the sermon given by, in a lot of different churches where they talk about counterfeit hundred dollar bills. And they say the way people are trained to recognize a counterfeit, they don’t go study all the different myriad of counterfeits that are out there. What they study is the real hundred dollar bill. They study it and study it. 

Jeff Johnson:
They look at the way that it feels, the way that the ink doesn’t smudge, the way that it feels when you fold it and crumple it in your hand, the way that it looks when you hold it up to the light. All the nuances, all the printings, all the things that are embedded in it, they study it and study it ad nauseam so that the next time a counterfeit comes along, they know it right off the bat because they can tell that’s not the thing. In that exact same vein, that’s how we know something is of God and something’s not of God. 

Jeff Johnson:
By studying God in his word and by chasing him down through prayer, you know, there’s a verse in Jeremiah that says, when you pray to me with all your heart, you’re going to find me, you’re going to cry out to me, and I’m going to respond to you. Well, we can trust that promise. So study the Scripture, press into it, read your Bible every day, and learn about the character and the nature of God to such an extent that when something comes along that it feels like it’s just about God, you’ll know that it is or it isn’t. You’ll be able to discern. That’s how you do it. Does that make sense? 

Emmett Johnson:
Yeah. 

Jeff Johnson:
Study the original article and then I. 

Emmett Johnson:
Guess to turn it back to, like, courage. How do you build up the courage to go tell other people about God? Because who are you to say that you know everything about God, you know all this. So how do you build up the courage, or I guess the bravery to be the first person, in most cases, the first person that they hear God through? 

Jeff Johnson:
Well, let me pull this one up because I want to quote it correctly. This is. You know that your dad is a big fan of apologetics. And this is first Peter, 3, 15 and 16. I want to get it right. 3, 15, 16, it says. Another great question. It says, but in your hearts, revere Christ as Lord. So your question is, how do you tell people what the truth is without sounding like an uppity kind of a person? Here’s what you do. In your hearts, revere Christ as Lord. Okay, that’s the first part. So you make sure that you got your relationship with God right. And you do that with prayer and with reading the Scriptures, with growing close to him, crying out to him, being in relationship to him, talking to him and listening to him, all that stuff. 

Jeff Johnson:
Then it says, always be prepared to give answer to everyone who asks you to. To give the reason for the hope that you have. So that presupposes that people are going to be asking you because they see something different in your life. And let’s stop right there. You got to ask yourself, how am I living if people aren’t coming up and asking you the question? Because your life should exhibit the aroma of God to such an extent that people are coming up going, what’s going on with you? Something’s awesome, and I want to know what it is. Well, what they’re seeing is what God’s done in your life. You know what I mean? So make sure that you got people that are coming up asking. Otherwise, go back and check yourself. Are there things that I need to stop doing? 

Jeff Johnson:
Are the things that I need to start doing. And then it goes on to say, but do this with gentleness and respect. So whenever we talk to somebody who has either fallen by the wayside or they’re getting it wrong or whatever, and our discernment tells us that they need to be. Sounds like such a harsh thing to say. They need to be corrected or they need to be told the truth. God’s word says that we need to do this with gentleness and respect. We’re not going to win anybody for the kingdom if we just hit them over the head with how smart we are. I could never do that anyway because I’m not that smart. But with gentleness and respect, which means that we have empathy for the person with where they’re coming from. 

Jeff Johnson:
Maybe somebody’s got some hurts, maybe somebody’s got some hang ups. Maybe somebody’s got some problems and some pains and some issues. Maybe they have had a bad dealing with church or, I don’t know, they were raised somehow to make them feel like they couldn’t trust God, that sort of thing, we need to empathize with that first and foremost. And then we can encourage them with what our story is, with what we know. You don’t want to come across as being uppity and super smart, but you want to be responsible to the truth and you need to tell them. Here’s one of my favorite quotes, Emmett. One of my favorite quotes is, oh, shoot. And I can’t give you the name of the guy who. I shouldn’t do it, but I’m going to give it anyway, even though I can’t credit it properly. 

Jeff Johnson:
He said, if you want somebody to know the truth, you should tell them. But if you want somebody to love the truth, you should tell them a story. So just like what I’m trying to do with this podcast, it’s interesting to me and enriching to me to hear people’s stories of courage because then that gets us back to love. And the truth that’s behind that. And my contention is the truth that’s behind that is a loving God who’s authored every single life of every single person that I’ve interviewed here. So tell them the truth. But if you want somebody to love the truth, you tell them a story. So you share. You share the story of what God’s done for you and that with gentleness and respect. Does the work make sense? 

Emmett Johnson:
Makes sense. It’s about all I got there, Pops. 

Jeff Johnson:
Is that it? No more other questions. 

Emmett Johnson:
I’m gonna call you Pops now. Because you have a grandbaby on the way. 

Jeff Johnson:
Oh, Emmett. 

Emmett Johnson:
So I’m allowed to call you Pops? 

Jeff Johnson:
Oh, Emmett. I’m gonna be a grandpa. Your mom’s gonna be a grandma. You’re gonna be an uncle. How good is that? 

Emmett Johnson:
It’s gonna be great. It’s gonna be great. But you’re gonna have to just be happy with Pops because I’m not changing it. It’s stuck already. 

Jeff Johnson:
Don’t we think that Emmett did a great job interviewing? 

Emmett Johnson:
Round of applause, please. Please. 

Jeff Johnson:
Okay, I’m turning this back on me, so I’m telling everybody. Thanks for joining us today. And, Emmett, thanks for interviewing me. I love you so much. 

Outro:
Thank you for joining us today on Courageous. If you’d like to hear more about the work and ministry being done at Crossroads Apologetics, please visit our home on the web at crossroadsapologetics.org Would you or someone you know like to be featured on Courageous? Send us an email at info@crossroadsapologetics.com or info@crossroadsapologetics.org telling us about the most courageous thing you’ve ever done.