Acting in the Face of Fear: Danica Wycherley on Trust, Thoughtful Decisions, and Finding Meaning After Loss

In the latest episode of the ‘Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics’ podcast, host Jeff Johnson interviews Danica Wycherley, who shares her inspiring journey of courage and decision-making. The discussion begins with an exploration of courage, defined as the ability to act in the presence of fear, and distinguishes it from recklessness. Danica recounts her personal experiences, including leaving a stable job to pursue her passion in Hollywood, facing the tragedy of losing her husband, and rebuilding her life in Minnesota where she has excelled academically and personally. She highlights her recent decision to homeschool her son, balancing professional and familial responsibilities with the support of her community and faith. Emphasizing the importance of trust and prayer, Danica reflects on the value of making thoughtful choices and living meaningfully. The episode concludes with a heartfelt prayer for her new journey and a reminder that every individual’s choices matter.

Danica Wytcherley and her family of five moved to the Inland NW from Minnesota’s Twin Cities during the height of Covid. She co-lead the mom’s ministry at their former church in downtown Minneapolis for five years and has been a women’s Bible study leader at her local church for the past three years. Two years ago she would have identified herself as a reluctant homeschooler whose hand was forced and now sees God’s providence all over their new (and now much loved) home education adventure. She has three degrees, a B.S., Business; B.A., Theater Arts and Master’s in Library and 
Information Science- but if you ask her, she’d say she likes her MMA black belt education the most. And she loves books. Her husband may say she has a book problem…

Thank you for listening! We hope you feel inspired and encouraged by our conversation today. If you did, be sure to share this episode with others.

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See you in the next episode! Be blessed!

Full Transcript

Intro:
Welcome to Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics, a look into what motivates us to step out in courage and the everyday bravery of men and women like you. In each episode, we hear a personal story of bravery centered around this. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And now your host, founder of Crossroads Apologetics, Jeff Johnson. 

Jeff Johnson:
Hi, everybody. The Pocket Dictionary of Ethics. How’s that for a book for you? The Pocket Dictionary of Ethics defines courage as a virtue that entails the capability to endure, resist or alter adversity together with wisdom, courage, justice and temperance. Courage, or fortitude, defined as the ability to act according to reason in the face of fear, is numbered among the four cardinal virtues of ancient Greek thought. For a long time, people have been recognizing this thing of courage as being fundamental to the human existence and something that sets people apart. And we’ve got another example of it today in a new friend of mine, Danica Wycherley, who was recommended to me by another friend that heard the podcast. And she said, jeff, you’ve got to hear this lady’s story. She’s got a fantastic story. 

Jeff Johnson:
So I’ve had the opportunity to get to know Danica and interview her. And she’s right. This is another fantastic story of courage. Danica is located out west and we’re going to jump in learning a little bit more about her and about where she’s from and hearing her story of courage. Oh, and you’ll hear early on in the podcast, Danica trying to recall the name of a famous songwriter. And just to fill that in real quick, that is Fanny Crosby, who she’s talking about Fanny Crosby. Well, Danica, so wonderful to meet you and so grateful to have you on the podcast here today. 

Danica Wytcherley:
So grateful to be here. 

Jeff Johnson:
You’re out in one of my favorite places in the world, so put yourself in context for all of our listeners and tell everybody a little bit more about you and where you’re from and sure. 

Danica Wytcherley:
So we are currently in Spokane, Washington, which is the Inland Northwest. It’s a very different area than our friends and neighbors on the. What I’ve come to learn is the west side, which is Seattle and Tacoma and all the other wildness that’s happening over there. So we’re very close to the Idaho Panhandle Mountains. Camping. I think there’s a requirement to have some kind of four wheel drive when you live here, because everyone does and, or a camper trailer and, or shop. It’s just the wildest thing ever. So it’s the land of outdoors, trucking and it’s just delightful. We came here in the height of COVID My family. I have three littles, a four year old, a seven year old, and a eight year old. We came out here from the Twin Cities in Minnesota, where we’ve been for almost 10 years. 

Danica Wytcherley:
And he’s an ER nurse, my husband, and he now works at three different ERs in Spokane. And we’re doing life here. So we met and married in Minnesota and he’s originally from Oregon and I’m originally from Colorado. So there’s a love for the outdoors and mountains and good people in our hearts. 

Jeff Johnson:
So, so wonderful. Well, Minnesota is. Is absolutely beautiful. My sister lives up in Golden Valley, and so I’m familiar with the cities and all of that, but Spokane is just something else. I mean, I love Iowa, but there’s something about that. 

Danica Wytcherley:
Spokane, it is beautiful. It is the. It is lovely. Totally. 

Jeff Johnson:
Well, we’re here to talk about courage today, and I can’t wait to get to the main question about what’s the most courageous thing that you’ve done? Danica. But before we do, when we wade in with a little bit of calibration of what courage means to you, how would you define it? I mean, when you hear courage, what do you think? 

Danica Wytcherley:
This is by no means original, and this is off the top of my head, but I think courage is action or moving forward or some kind of progression in this, in the presence of fear or overwhelming odds of doing something or having faith or holding fast in the midst of overwhelming odds and unlikely circumstances. That is my personal definition of courage. 

Jeff Johnson:
I think that’s a great definition. Is. Is courage akin to recklessness or. 

Danica Wytcherley:
No, no. 

Jeff Johnson:
Okay. 

Danica Wytcherley:
No. I think recklessness connotes a sense of selfishness, self centeredness. I think courage is the exact opposite of that. We’re seeking not just our will, but the good of others and seeking out the true and the good and the beautiful. And that takes courage in all sorts of manners throughout the day, minute by minute. Right. We’re faced with, this could be a courageous choice, or this could be a reckless, idiotic choice. So which. Which will it be? 

Jeff Johnson:
I completely agree. There’s a. There’s another friend that I reached out to, will remain nameless even if. If I get him on the podcast later on and interview him, I won’t go back to this comment that I’m about to say right now. But I reached out to him and asked him if he would come onto the podcast, and he very gently agreed, but with a caveat. He said, I cannot think of one single thing that I’ve ever done in my entire life that’s been courageous. And I was like, oh, my goodness. Because I don’t believe that, Danica. I believe every single person has done something courageous in. Even inside of a 24 hour period, somebody’s done something that’s courageous. Do you feel the same way? 

Danica Wytcherley:
I do. I am thinking of someone who I also will not name, who is part of our church’s regular monthly weekly women’s Bible study. And she is wise and widowed, we call her. She’s one of our wise widows that we know. And she showed up to something. I asked her for a favor. I said, we need some help. Would you mind giving some time to this? And she said yes. And I didn’t think anything of it. Well, later I circled back with her after this event that was a smashing success because she showed up and she. She made it happen. And I said, thank you so much. Thank you for doing this. 

Danica Wytcherley:
And I came to find out that she was spreading all the way to the event and asked and called her sister for prayer and said, I just don’t know if I could walk in there and do this. And she was basically working with children. And I said, you are one of the most courageous people I’ve ever met. That you held true to your yes. Your yes was yes. And you showed up and you had a smile on your face and I had no idea you were struggling with you, I don’t know, anxiety or thoughts that she wasn’t going to be good enough. But she showed up and she was perfect. She was exactly what I needed. And the Lord used her and I had no idea. And that was. So I think of her and her courageous act and would she call it courageous? 

Danica Wytcherley:
She might not, but I sure do. 

Jeff Johnson:
So amen. And some people don’t recognize it in themselves, but we sure, I mean, we can see it. And it’s like that is. That takes courage to do what you just did. 

Danica Wytcherley:
And don’t you think, like, being part of the church in the body is. That’s part of our job, is to call that out into people and encourage them in that. It’s like, I saw you do this. Good job. Keep, keep going. You know. And what’s one of my favorite lines in Chronicles of Narnia? You know, Aslan says to Lucy, courage, dear heart, courage. You know, and it’s like, I have that up, you know, and it’s in my daughter’s room and it’s in my office and it’s like, yes, courage. And so Anyway, yes, I am passionate about speaking that into others because they need to be aware that you are courageous and the Lord has things for you to do. So keep your chin up and keep going. 

Jeff Johnson:
Call people to it. I totally agree with you, Danica. Give me, give me. Either somebody in. In present day may. It could be somebody who’s popular that all the listeners would know, or just somebody in your fiefdom, or even a historical figure that really embodies courage. Somebody that you think about when you think about courage. 

Danica Wytcherley:
Oh, that is a very good question. I. So the kids and I, we try to do hymn sings every morning. We don’t do it every morning, but we try and we learn about these hymn writers, and one of them, golly, I think it might have been the one. See, now I’m gonna have to go look. I’m gonna go look at my notes. What a friend we have in Jesus. I can’t recall. I might be misspeaking. I’m going to find out, and I’ll circle back with you. She was blind and her entire life, and she wrote over 8,000 hymns. And that is courageous to me. Just her writing and being faithful. And it was some time ago, I want to say it was like the turn of the century. So it was, you know, an odd 100 years ago. 

Danica Wytcherley:
In fact, all these hymn writers that I’m reading, I think we. We might have, you know, maybe some of the evangelical church is not as familiar with hymns now. We don’t have hymnals in a lot of our, you know, big churches. And. And I’m friends with, you know, all sorts of different Christians, you know, Orthodox and Catholics and Reformed and evangelicals, and some do have the hymnals. But many of my friends and close acquaintances don’t have hymnals. So learning the. The traditions of these hymn writers, these great theological songs that are packed with courage, you read the stories of these people’s lives, and they’re filled with tragedy and hardship and being the underdog. And yet these songs have endured, and they praise. They praise the king, and they. They align our hearts rightly so. 

Danica Wytcherley:
That was a very long answer to someone who I think is courageous. I apologize. 

Jeff Johnson:
That’s a beautiful answer. That’s the perfect answer. And that’s right, because we get inspired by these hymns and they lift us up. And that comes from someplace, and what a. What a deep well it comes from. And oftentimes that is rooted in the courage of their existence and what they’ve had to deal with. 

Danica Wytcherley:
So I think, well, and a Lot. Yeah. And along those lines, Jeff, if we can look back over the millennia, I mean, some of these hymns were written, you know, in the 1600s, and we can look back and it’s like, we’re not alone. We have. Our brothers and sisters have been doing this for hundreds and years. And that lends courage because it’s like these words that are falling from my mouth and adoration and praise and encouragement have been sung for so long. And that can bolster your heart and your spirit because it’s like we’re not treading alone. We’re not on this journey alone, you know, so. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah, no, it’s really good. Okay. Danica? Well, it takes a certain amount of courage to come on a podcast and be able to tell the truth about yourself unvarnished and really share that story of courage. So, now I’m coming to the question, Danica. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? 

Danica Wytcherley:
So I have been giving this a lot of thought and you and I talked briefly before this recorded conversation and I am going to answer this question. But I do need to give it some context because really, what I’ve come to the conclusion of, especially as I’ve queried some of my friends and family about, like, well, how would you answer this question? Question. What do you think that I believe that the most courageous thing you ever have done, my young adult, 20ish year old self with that most courageous thing I ever done was the. Was the most courageous thing I’ve ever done. And then right as I hit my 30s, I did the most courageous thing I ever done, I had ever done. And I just turned 41 and I have, am doing right now the most courageous thing I’ve ever done. 

Danica Wytcherley:
And there’s context there. So I’d like to give just a snippet of context to those things because it builds into something like wow, like, and now here you are doing this thing and I think it has more wow or more shazam. Knowing like, oh my goodness, these are these other things. So very quickly, in my early 20s, out of college, swanky corporate job in Washington D.C. 9 to 5, 401K. And I sought the Lord’s will and I packed up my Honda Civic and I moved to Hollywood, California where I was going to try to break into film and television. I am not the individual who is the free flowing artist spirit eating tuna out of a can, leaving it out of their car, hoping to call from the agent. I don’t Operate that way. I am an A type. Get her done. 

Danica Wytcherley:
Where is my retirement income going to be coming from? So this was very anti character for me. And it was all God. And I liken it to my. To the Israelites wandering in the wilderness where the Shekinah glory by day with that cloud was their. Their true north star and the manna every day. That was me in Los Angeles. It was the most courageous thing I could have ever done. It was difficult and hard and grueling and all the stereotypes were true and the mission there and the Christians are really doing amazing things there. So I worked very hard to build community and to get to know Christians and the Lord healed his name with me and did all this wonderful stuff. 

Danica Wytcherley:
And then I met a man in Bible study and were together for two years doing everything very by the book, dated and engaged. And then we got married and he ended up being a very terrible human being. And then he died. So I was widowed. He had a hiking accident and. And it was just like out of a movie, quite honestly, with search and rescue and police and all that. And the church surrounded me and buoyed me up. And then I was at a quandary because I’d been there. I’m almost 30. And I did the next courageous thing in my life and I restarted it. So I packed up my new Honda Civic and I drove to Minnesota where I had a smidge of family and I had no job and no place to live and no friends and no church. 

Danica Wytcherley:
And it was really a starting over, but just reaching into trust that I would be taken care of. And the Lord dealt very tenderly with me once I moved there. And he gave me a job and he gave me friends and he gave me a church and he gave me community and I worked hard at that. And it was there that I got my master’s in library science while holding down a full time job. And you and I talked. I got a MMA black belt training in a dojo every day there. And that was courageous. These are all these courageous steps. Steps. And here we are almost 15 years later and I am 41. I, my husband and I just celebrated our 10 year wedding anniversary. That is courageous, in my opinion. Marriage is hard and beautiful and a mission field. 

Danica Wytcherley:
And iron sharpens iron. And so this leads me to the most courageous thing in this particular chapter of my life right now. And I’m gonna call it the most courageous thing I’ve ever done. 

Jeff Johnson:
My husband and I decided just to interrupt really quick. 

Danica Wytcherley:
Oh sure. Sure. 

Jeff Johnson:
For our listeners out there. Okay. We have just run past probably four or five more podcasts that Danica is going to do with the courageous podcast. Each one of those are just remarkable. Okay. But you’ve beautifully set the stage. So now we can’t. 

Danica Wytcherley:
Yes, please. Well, I, I want to answer the question. You know, we hear those, we have the, those talk shows, you know, where they’re like, what’s your question? Answer the question. So I’m going to answer this question, Jeff. So the most courageous thing right now in this season, and this may seem very silly to some of you in light of what I just said, or, or the world, but in this season for our family, it was pulling. He’s now 8, but two years ago, pulling him out of public school and deciding to homeschool him. I am not. I was not the homeschool person. Was I? Pro homeschool? Absolutely. If that’s you, do you. If that’s how the Lord calls you. And boy o boy, did we do a 360 on that. He opened my eyes. He. My husband and I were in agreement. 

Danica Wytcherley:
And now that I have torn into schooling and education and, and the systematic problems that exist and the benefits and the flourishing that occur with the right kind of homeschooling and the situations. And I’ve read, and I’ve read and I’ve researched and I’ve met with people. So homeschooling is the most courageous thing I’ve done right now. And that dovetails. J. About two weeks ago, three weeks ago, maybe, I resigned from my very beloved and wonderful paid job. So I’m a mom and a wife and very plugged into our church and the ministries there. I have a heart for women and mamas and, and church ministry that’s very important to us. So life is full. But my job is helpful to my family and it keeps my brain sharp. 

Danica Wytcherley:
And I work with our donors and I work with the people for this fantastic ministry at the University of Minnesota. And the system that I use, Jeff, is highly specialized. It’s called Salesforce, and it’s a global software CRM cloud system. And Jeff, if you know Salesforce, which I do, and you keep your wits about you and you keep your brain sharp just staying up to date with Salesforce because every day something changes. You are insured, job security. People want you. If you’re trustworthy and you’re good with it, they want you. So this is very big for me because this just happened Prior to our meeting where I said, I’m going to say goodbye to this. 

Danica Wytcherley:
I’m going to say goodbye to this job security for when the kids are older someday, I was thinking, I just maintain my salesforce credentials and these incredible people that I get to work with. But I was tired, Jeff, of feeling shame and guilt when I was with my children and not pouring into this ministry for which they pay me. And I was tired of feeling shame and guilt when I was pouring into this ministry that I love and not pouring in my children. And they’re, like I said, they’re little, 4, 7 and 8. And so this is it. I blink and my 8 year old is like, oh, my goodness, he’s gained a foot, you know, and so this season is so fleeting. 

Danica Wytcherley:
And so this is the most courageous thing for us to be what we think is countercultural and pull our kids home to plug back into the culture by outsourcing to our neighbors and being visible and running the neighborhood lemonade stand and baking sourdough and dropping it off to strangers and doing that. And for me to let go of a very lucrative job skill for now in this season and say, you know, we’re going to take the financial hit and we’re going to take, you know, for me, the. The pride hit. Because there’s some pride, quite honestly, with like, oh, yeah, I’m not just a homemaker. I’m like, you know, I’m a professional. And the Lord’s like, let that go. Let it go. I have something else for you right now in this season. 

Danica Wytcherley:
So for me, Jeff, that is the most courageous thing I’ve done in this season of my life so far. Homeschooling and letting go of financial security in that regard, because God’s economy is not our economy. And so I’m trusting him in that and trying to be courageous. 

Jeff Johnson:
Bravo. Bravo, Danica. That’s fantastic. I. I don’t know why I’m thinking about this, but I’ve got a friend of mine in South Africa who talks about these leaps of faith, and he said, it’s like jumping off a cliff. And he said, either God’s gonna catch you or he’s gonna grow wings on you? Yes, one of those two. Is that what it felt like? Did it feel like, look, I don’t know what’s on the other side of this, but I know that God’s got it. 

Danica Wytcherley:
Yes, 100%. And I feel like I’ve stepped off and I. I think it’s a total grace, Jeff, that I feel so much excitement over whether I’m going to grow ring wings or. Or mysteriously, there will be a net. I’m not sure which. But I am anticipatory, and I. That is a grace, because it could be the opposite, and I am tired of feeling the opposite. I’m tired of fretting and worrying and. And having. You know, it’s. It’s not for us. We’re new creatures. We’re new creations. Do you believe him or not? He will catch you or he’ll let you fly. 

Jeff Johnson:
Right? 

Danica Wytcherley:
So I love that. I love that metaphor. I’ll have to write that down. 

Jeff Johnson:
Right? Oh, this is. This is so good. Danica, how have people in your circle of influence in your friend set responded to this decision? 

Danica Wytcherley:
I. 

Jeff Johnson:
They’re all saying, you’re crazy, Danica, what are you doing? Take the money. Forget the kids. That’s what they’re saying, right? 

Danica Wytcherley:
Some. No, you know, isn’t that so great that we can surround ourselves with people who have a Christ mindset and not necessarily a worldly one? I think some people might be thinking that. I know several moms. They. It’s humbling, Jeff, because I know some moms that are looking for the type of work that they can use to supplement their income because inflation is the pits right now. Groceries cost an arm and a leg, and life is hard. You know, the culture is scary right now. And so. So I hold this very reverently, this decision that the Lord has enabled us to make. You know, we are. We are privileged that I can say, okay, we’re going to tighten our belts here, and here. And we’re just going to do without here and here. But we’ll make it. 

Danica Wytcherley:
We’ll be okay, you know, and some families don’t have the opportunity. So in answer to your question, the people that have. That get to speak into my life, whose opinion matters highly to me, they have been covering me with prayer. And then when I confessed, it felt like a confession, you know, like, okay, I think we’re doing this. There was just an overwhelming sense of support, and I’m grateful for that. Even the people that I work with, the. The ministry that I work for is called Anselm House, and they’re a Christian study center. They are filled with the most winsome, lovely, ridiculously intelligent people I’ve ever had the privilege of working with. And every single one of them, I’ve been working there almost 10 years. Every single one of them is pro family. And they said, go you. 

Danica Wytcherley:
We are so sad, but go you. You know, and not selfishly. Go. You. You go serve your family, and you go do what the Lord is calling you to do, and we’ll see what doors he opens in the future and which ones he’ll shut. So. 

Jeff Johnson:
What a blessing. 

Danica Wytcherley:
What a blessing. 

Jeff Johnson:
When. Okay, a couple more questions. When you come down to this decision, when you come down to this courageous act, what kind of things line up to help you make that decision? I guess I wanted touch on the. On the rail of discernment, discerning God’s will and that sort of thing. I mean, how did you. You just wake up in the middle of night and say, no, that’s it, honey. 

Danica Wytcherley:
No, I tell you the. That’s a. I have a very pat answer for you for once. I. We have a mutual friend, Donna. Donna is wise and utterly delightful, and she’s. I count her as one of my. My dearest. And she was walking this journey with me, and she said, I suggest, friend, that you write down. You write this down and you do the list of pros and cons. And it takes away the emotion, right? So if you get it on paper and it becomes more pragmatic and logical because so much emotion is involved, you know, this is. My heart is tendered to this ministry finances. It’s awfully nice, Jeff, to have a little extra income and. 

Danica Wytcherley:
And the pride thing, you know, my brain, you know, saying I get to exercise this part of my brain that isn’t wiping bottoms and doing laundry, you know, and it was excellent advice. And my husband and I did it together. And there were tears. My tears. He wasn’t crying. There were tears involved. And. And what made this decision so difficult, Jeff, is that the list of pros with staying with Anselm House was so significant. The flexibility and the potential for the future and the money and the people and the work, Jeff, the work is missional. What they’re doing is. Is affecting the world, you know, But. And this is an old saying, the hand that rocks the cradle also rules the world, right? So, like, I have these three little missional souls in my home. 

Danica Wytcherley:
So it came down to, for me, trusting the Lord and leaping and trusting that if this was not his will, for me, Jeff, he would make it clear. So I wrote down a list of pros and cons. I cried over it and prayed, and then I stepped. Because our Lord doesn’t. He doesn’t play games with us, you know, and think a lot of times there’s many paths we can take that are all good. And he says, go for it. I will lead you and guide you, then maybe A, B, or C. None of them are wrong. Go and trust me. You know, so. 

Jeff Johnson:
And what I. We’re doing, what I found, Danica, if I can just turn this podcast around and make it all about me here. 

Danica Wytcherley:
Yes, please do. Do it, Jeff. 

Jeff Johnson:
We’ll come back and talk about you. But what I found is when I’m following. When I’m listening to the Lord and I’m following his lead, he’s not giving me the next 50 years necessarily. He’s just telling me what he wants me to do right now, what decision he wants me to make right now. So it might change in six months or a year or two years or five years. So we can absolutely trust the Lord just to guide and direct us as long as we stay close to him. So there might be some. 

Danica Wytcherley:
And isn’t that countercultural? You know, it’s. It’s totally biblical. Give us this day our daily bread, not tomorrow’s bread. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah, so. So I assume you found the same thing where. It’s okay. This is the decision I’m making right now. If I wake up in two weeks and the Lord gives me another direction, I’ll follow that. 

Danica Wytcherley:
That’s right. 

Jeff Johnson:
Now, this is exactly what I’m doing, because I know he’s called me to it. 

Danica Wytcherley:
That’s right. That’s right. Totally. 

Jeff Johnson:
That’s wonderful. 

Danica Wytcherley:
It is wonderful. 

Jeff Johnson:
Danica. There’s. I assume that you wouldn’t recommend to our listeners then to quit your job and, you know, throw caution to the wind and do that sort of thing. What your story emphasizes is really trusting. 

Danica Wytcherley:
In the Lord and hard work. Right. All of this is couched in doing the work. There’s no. There’s no shortcuts. The. I’m reading with the children, too, right now, an edition of Pilgrim’s Progress, and little Christian is battling his way to the celestial city, you know, where the king is waiting for him, and. And the kids even are picking up on this. It’s like, man, he keeps getting sidetracked. And I’m like, he sure is, and he’s us. So, no, I don’t advise you to kick up your heels and quit your job unless the Lord says, you know, and we have to be careful. I think I have to be careful. Like, oh, the Lord told me. It’s like, really? Is there an audible voice? No, no, no, there wasn’t. But there was lots of prayer and scripture and community and unity with my spouse. 

Danica Wytcherley:
Right. And a sense of peace. So I think those are all key. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah. Okay. There’s somebody out there, maybe. This is the last question I’ll ask you, Danica, and then I’ll ask you 5,000 more questions about all the other stuff the next time I get you on the podcast. Wow, what a delight and a fountain of courage. So there’s somebody out there listening to the podcast right now that is maybe wringing their hands or scratching their head or maybe they’ve had a little bit of a sleepless night or whatever, and they’re trying to decide whether they should or whether they shouldn’t. And we’ve kind of really answered a lot of that stuff here. But what kind of advice would you give to people that are on the precipice of a courageous decision making to call them into that? What would you say? 

Danica Wytcherley:
So I do have a, a pat answer for that. I am listening to Tim Keller. I listen to a lot of Tim Keller’s sermons. He is a, he just passed in last year and he is a very well known theologian and preacher and just a lovely all around gent. And he’s doing a series on wisdom. And so this is all Tim Keller. But he says, you know, people get to these quandaries in these crossroads and they’re like, what do I do? What do I do? I want to know. I open up my Bible and I, I pray, lord, give me a verse and I stick it there and it says, you know, Judas hung himself on the tree. And he’s like, okay, that’s the wrong verse, you know, and it’s like, that doesn’t work. It doesn’t work that way. 

Danica Wytcherley:
And that’s all Tim Keller, right? So his whole wisdom series, right? Wisdom in the literature of the Bible is that it’s day by day, it’s one foot in front of the other. It’s learning to walk faithfully so that you can grow so accustomed to what is not only moral, but spiritually pleasing to the Lord. You exercise your wisdom muscles every day that when you get to the crossroads, you have more of the ability to say, this is the way I’m going to take it. So I, I, my answer isn’t easy in that, you know, well, do I marry the guy or not? Or do I, you know, give all my money here or not? And it’s like, well, a lot of times we don’t have those pat answers. 

Danica Wytcherley:
But it is a prompt and an encouragement to be reading your Bible every day and to be seeking out wisdom, to search the scriptures and to trust that the Lord knows your heart and his way oh, golly, I just butchered the verse. But, you know, man makes plans, and the Lord’s way prevails. You know, it’s like. That is so reassuring. So trust, trust your heavenly father and continue to exercise your wisdom muscles every day. And that’s, again, that’s Tim Keller. And it was. It was a bit surprising because I. I, too. I. I want to know, like, well, what do I do? And he’s like, you gotta work on this your whole life. You work on this until you meet those people, Jeff. And I feel like you’re one of them, where it’s like, this. This guy’s wise. 

Danica Wytcherley:
I need to know what he might think about this, because he’s been working on this for a long time. So does that answer your question? 

Jeff Johnson:
Oh, it totally answers. It totally answers the question. It’s a wonderful answer. Danica, it’s great having you on the podcast, and you’ve talked so beautifully about your faith and expressed that so well. If you wouldn’t mind, and for our listeners out there, if you guys are inclined, I’d like to say a prayer for you to just encourage you to take that step of faith. And more importantly, listen to your heavenly father. Listen to what he has to say to you, and just be encouraged in that relationship. So if you just want to join me in a quick little prayer. Papa, we thank you so much for Danika and for her story of courage. We thank you for the way that you’ve led and guided her entire life. 

Jeff Johnson:
We thank you for the way that she’s been obedient and listened to you in such a discerning way, God. And we pray that this endeavor with her staying home, Lord, is just an absolute blessing to her and her family and that it oozes outside of that house and outside of that fiefdom and just gets on all of us, and everybody gets better and more encouraged because of the courageous thing that she’s done in holding your hand and doing what you’ve guided her to. So we thank you so much, Papa. And for anybody out there that’s wondering about doing a courageous thing, Lord, we just pray that your. Your presence would be made known to them and you would just draw yourself so close to them and they draw themselves close to you and feel that presence, Lord, and just be totally confident in that. 

Jeff Johnson:
We love you so much. We thank you for this day. We pray this in Jesus name, Amen. That’s lovely, Danica. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. You’re in trouble. You’re going to be on a lot more. 

Danica Wytcherley:
Okay. I would welcome the opportunity. And thank you for asking such excellent questions. Questions. I pray that whoever may tune in or hear this, whether it’s intentional or just scrolling through whichever podcasting app they have, they’re encouraged and that they know that their life has meaning and that it’s that every choice, it matters that you have meaning that you matter. So thank you for helping me say that. 

Outro:
Thank you for joining us today on Courageous. If you’d like to hear more about the work and ministry being done at Crossroads Apologetics, please visit our home on the web at crossroadsapologetics.org Would you or someone you know like to be featured on Courageous? Send us an email at info@crossroadsapologetics.com or info@crossroadsapologetics.org telling us about the most courageous thing you’ve ever.