The Courage to Stand Firm: Hassan John on Faith, Survival, and the Resilient Church in Nigeria

In the podcast episode “Courageous Crossroads” featuring Hassan John, host Jeff Johnson facilitates a deep and inspiring discussion centered on courage in the face of adversity. Hassan, a priest from the Anglican Diocese of Jos, Nigeria, shares his journey from journalist to project manager for Barnabas Aid, highlighting his dedication to supporting Christian communities in Africa affected by violence. He defines courage as the act of doing what is right during challenging moments, drawing from personal experiences of near-death encounters and a pivotal moment in 2010 when he saved around 50 women and children during an attack. Hassan credits his faith and inspirational figures like Archbishop Benjamin Kwashi for his resilience, reflecting on the perseverance of those in his community who, despite repeated attacks on their church, continue to gather in worship. Conclusively, he encourages listeners to embrace bravery through faith, reminding them that reliance on God provides comfort amidst life’s dangers.

Hassan John is a pastor whose life story is marked by courage and unwavering faith. Originally from Nigeria, he has faced numerous life-threatening situations, yet his trust in God has never wavered. His journey of faith and resilience has led him to Great Britain, where he continues his spiritual and humanitarian mission.

Currently, Hassan serves as the Africa Project Coordinator at Barnabas Aid UK, based in the Old Rectory, Pewsey. In this role, he dedicates himself to supporting and uplifting communities across  Africa, driven by his deep commitment to his faith and his desire to make a positive impact in the world.

Hassan now resides in Swindon with his family, where he has found a new home and community. Despite the challenges he has faced, his life is a testament to the power of faith and the strength of the human spirit in overcoming adversity.

Thank you for listening! We hope you feel inspired and encouraged by our conversation today. If you did, be sure to share this episode with others.

Let’s stay in touch:

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• Email us at info@crossroadsapologetics.org
• Visit our website www.crossroadsapologetics.org

See you in the next episode! Be blessed!

Full Transcript

Intro:
Welcome to Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics, a look into what motivates us to step out in courage and the everyday bravery of men and women like you. In each episode, we hear a personal story of bravery centered around this question. What’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? And now your host, founder of Crossroads Apologetics, Jeff Johnson. 

Jeff Johnson:
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Courageous, the podcast where we ask the question, what’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? I’m excited to have you all listen to a friend of mine, Pastor Hassan John. I originally met him over in the UK and he’s a pastor that operated out of Jos, Nigeria for a long time and has since relocated back to the uk. But he’s one of these people that inspires me every time I sit down and have the opportunity to visit with him. He’s been a guest in my home and you’ll hear a little bit about that in the podcast. But he’s one of these people that just blesses me just being in his presence and a real example of what courage looks like. So let’s jump right in and listen to Hassan John. 

Jeff Johnson:
Tell us what’s the most courageous thing he’s ever done? Tell us a little bit, Hassan, about where we find you for our listeners so that they can put you in context. Tell them a little bit about. There’s a lot to your background, but you can tell them just a little bit or a lot of bit, whatever you want to do, but tell them who you are and where you’re at now and what you’re doing. 

Hassan John:
Okay? So my name is Hassan John. I’m currently in Pusey. That’s in, in. In England, where I work with Barnabas Aid as a project manager for Africa. So what we do, basically, it’s helping and taking support to Christian community, the suffering Christian communities actually all over the world. But I’m more particular, or rather my area of focus is in Africa, where we go to most of these communities that are devastated by radical Islamic groups and, well, basically where Christians are suffering for their faith, I would say, and perhaps those that have followed the recent reports by open doors, these areas where it is the most dangerous to be a Christian. But we’re doing our best to work with our brothers and sisters in these communities. 

Hassan John:
Now, in terms of background, I would say I am a priest of the Anglican Diocese of Joss, a journalist, but also, I don’t know, I do every other thing I’m told to do. That’s, in short, how I can Explain it. 

Jeff Johnson:
You’re a priest and you’re a journalist. Now, when I first met you in 2016, you were spending a year at Oxford University studying Christian apologetics so that you could go back to Joss, into the community there and. And served the Christians there. And you had. And you had some. Some notoriety because you were a reporter with cnn. Is that correct? 

Hassan John:
That’s correct. 

Jeff Johnson:
Okay. 

Hassan John:
Yes. So we did a lot of reporting, actually, with cnn. I was a local producer that worked with the CNN team to break the story about the abduction of the Chibok School girls that started the Bring back our War campaign worldwide. This. The secondary schools that were abducted by the terrorist group Roku Haram in northeastern Nigeria. And we’ve done many other projects after then. Yes. 

Jeff Johnson:
Wow. Amazing. And married and children and. Tell us about that. Hassan. 

Hassan John:
Yeah, so I’m married to Hana, too, my amazing wife. And I have. So I have four children. Three are my biological children. That’s Valerie, Lester, and Sharon. But we adopted Stella, who is again going around and reporting these killings in central Nigeria. I came across this girl whose parents were killed by radical militia groups. So we adopted her. And she’s amazing girl now as part of our family. Wow. 

Jeff Johnson:
And is she still in Nigeria or she in England with you? 

Hassan John:
She’s just still in Nigeria. We’re still working on her adoption papers. 

Jeff Johnson:
Wow. Wow, wow. 

Hassan John:
Yeah. 

Jeff Johnson:
Well, this. This podcast is on the topic of courage, and I can’t think of a better person to be talking to about this topic than you, Hasan. But before we get into the big question, what’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? Tell me, how would you define courage. 

Hassan John:
Jeff? This is quite difficult to define. I don’t know if I’m the right person to do that. Well, this is simply because. Also, I think it’s just. It’s just putting your heart, whatever the consequences, into doing something that will. I think just doing something that. Let me put it this. Doing what is right at a very difficult moment, at a very challenging moment. I don’t know how. So usually it’s an instinctive thing that’s driven out of an immediate passion or an immediate challenge that is before one, and you just step out and do it. Sometimes you really don’t think it’s a courageous thing until after it’s done. Then you look back and people say, oh, well, that’s a courageous thing to do. But at that moment, that’s really the listing on your mind. You just wanted to do something to save an immediate situation. 

Jeff Johnson:
Very good. So where does the inspiration come from? 

Hassan John:
For me, I would say, basically, I’ll just simply say my faith in Christ and the. And the drive to do what is right and what is just irrespective of who is involved at any moment in time, and to just simply do it to the best of my ability at that moment in time as well, and just do it. Not because, you know, I. I want any acknowledgment or I need any reward or anything, just to just simply do because it’s right, because that’s what the Lord would expect me to do. 

Jeff Johnson:
Basically, you hear about a lot of heroic endeavors and people running into burning buildings or rescuing people from violence, one sort or another. And oftentimes you hear those people say afterwards that it was, I’m not a hero. I was just doing the thing that I was supposed to do. So you’d be in that same kind of category. It’s just the right thing that God puts in front of you to do at that moment. 

Hassan John:
Yeah. And like I said earlier on, sometimes it’s just an instinctive action. You just see something, and immediately the adrenaline kicks in, and then you just move. And, Jeff, I must say, most of the time, without even thinking. So. So you don’t even think of the dangers. You don’t even think of what would happen to you. You just. You just respond immediately and as quickly and as fast as you can. That’s the only way I can explain it. 

Jeff Johnson:
Well, I don’t want to take anything away from whatever you want to share with us about your most courageous thing, but have you had some close calls, Hassan? 

Hassan John:
Oh, several. I don’t know, but I would say I could. I could go into a list of them, because, yes, I did. I was shot at, I think, twice. One by the army second. The other one was trying to save someone who. So it was in Jaws during one of the crisis between Muslim and Christian communities, and it was just an instinctive move to get into a building because I thought there were people there, and they were just gunshots going all over the place. So I turned this corner, and there was this young man pointing a gun at my face. And he fired. I just ducked and ran as fast as I could. And then, of course, like I said, I came into this community as well. And then it’s an armored car with the soldiers came, turned around. 

Hassan John:
So this soldier came out of his armored car, looked at my direction, went on his knees, raised his gun, and just fired. And what saved my life was a brick building just in between me and the Soldier, because the moment he raised the gun, I was together with a friend. I shouted for my friend to go down. So we all went down. Unfortunately, my friend got hit by the bullet, but thankfully he survived. Yeah, and. And quite a number of. A number of incident. I mean, incidences that one can name that. That, you know, we’ve come face to face with. I could also mention. Well, this one, I would say the Lord saved me because went into a community where. So there was a reported shooting. 

Hassan John:
So with my friend, went to that area, but I was just a minute ahead of my friend, who also was a journalist. So we came to an intercession. The road just split into two, and I took the left road by instinct, and he took the right. When he came behind me, unfortunately for him, even though we’re communicating on phone, his phone suddenly went dead. But unfortunately, we found his dead body mutilated and completely hacked with matches and things like that a couple of hours later. So, yeah, one would. I would say we’ve had quite a. Quite close calls a number of times. 

Jeff Johnson:
Wow. Well, you are definitely a man of courage, Hassan, and. And a dear friend of mine. I don’t know if I could put this in context with our listeners, because this is kind of a long story, but my mother unexpectedly passed away in October of 2018. And I had the opportunity to have you and my other friend justice, who’s been on this podcast before as well, coming to stay at my week. And you and I had not met each other personally and hadn’t had that kind of contact, but justice and I had. Well, his visa fell through, but yours was accepted. And so the day after my mother’s funeral, I ended up going out to the airport in Des Moines and picking up you to come stay at my house. Somebody who I’d never met. 

Jeff Johnson:
And I’m telling you, Hassan, that was the most blessed week that I can remember. And I just thought to myself, in retrospect, looking back, how much does God love me that after my mother had passed away unexpectedly, God sent a Nigerian pastor that I’d never met before to come stay in my house for a week and minister to me and pal around with me. And so, anyway, you’re an absolute blessing. And during that week, of course, I got to learn a lot about the courage that you’ve exhibited over your life, which is massive and much more for than one podcast can. Can hold. But anyway, let me go ahead and jump right into it then, Hassan, because I’m sure our listeners want to know, how would you answer that question, what’s the most courageous thing you’ve ever done? 

Hassan John:
Jeff, this is a very difficult question, honestly, simply because, like I said, well, now, looking at it, in hindsight, one could say, basically the. So I think there was this community. This was on. I remember clearly, I think it was on the 10th of January. This was in 2010, when I came into this community. The community was under attack. There were lots of gunfire going on. And so there were, again, houses were burning because there were petrol bombs being thrown and buildings as they were burning. And I looked at this. This was in Joss. Yes, and actually near the city center in Joss. And so. So the thing was, were so, so desperate. The houses we are closing in the little community. All the Christians, particularly women and children, had gathered in the center of the little community. 

Hassan John:
Now, the youth were trying to ward off the attackers by throwing rocks at them and trying to. To drive them out, but they were throwing petrol bombs and the houses were closing in. And unfortunately for us, actually, annoyingly, I must add that we had the army that was called into the situation, but what they did was, rather than intervening, an armored car or a personnel car will drive through the community and they’ll fire a few shots into the air, and then they would drive away. And I tried stopping one of the soldiers to say, hey, can you help? We have. I think there must be close to 50 women and children that were all huddled up together. So I tried to move them close to a church. 

Hassan John:
And just there, the women just started singing and, you know, just calling out to the Lord for intervention. And so at that time, also, I called my bishop, Archbishop Benjamin Kwasha, at that time to explain the situation. And he said, look, do whatever you can to get this. These people out. And there was just. We were surrounded because the gunshots were coming from all over the place and the houses were burning. So he did say, look, whatever you have to do, try and get the men and the women out. So I moved. I tried meeting with one of the pastors that was in the community, and I said, hey, what can we do? And he says, I don’t know what to do, because we don’t know what is ahead of us. But to the Lord’s miraculous intervention. 

Hassan John:
I remember that day, there was the smoke from the buildings. Now there was this gentle breeze that blew the smoke towards a particular direction in that community. So what we did, therefore, was I called out to the women and children. I said, let’s move. Let’s get into the smoke. In my mind, I said, well, that would give us a little screen so that even if they were shooting at the other end, not too many will be killed, but at least a lot of the women and children will get through. So we moved in. It was in between some burning buildings, but were able to push more than 50 women and children through that smoke. And we kept going and pushing until we got out of the community. 

Hassan John:
And by God’s divine miracle, by the time we got out of the buildings that surrounded that place, we found out that there was that place. There was absolutely nobody there. All those that were shooting had moved to another direction. And so were able to get the women and the children out of that community that day. And just about 200 meters ahead of us was a group of soldiers. I would say about four or five trucks filled with soldiers. They were just sitting down there watching from a distance as people were being shot at and as buildings were burning. I just can’t forget that day. Anyway, went out, got all the women and the children. I was able to carry those that were injured, and we got them to a safe place where they got some treatment. 

Hassan John:
I think that was one of the memorable days I can remember. 

Jeff Johnson:
That is hero stuff, Hassan. That’s amazing. And. Go ahead. 

Hassan John:
No, I was just saying. Well, at that time, you know, all it was, I would say the survival instinct just kicked in. But like I said, we saw also the hand of God playing through in this. Because if not for. For that gentle breeze that blew, that huge plume of smoke, and then the desire to say, look, let’s. Let’s just go through it. Let’s hope that it is going to be a cover. And indeed it was. Because I was saying, well, even if people got shot, at least not everybody, some people will be able to escape. And indeed the Lord saved us that day. 

Jeff Johnson:
That’s a miracle. If that plume of smoke hadn’t been there, Hassan, heavens, what would have happened? 

Hassan John:
The story would have been different, definitely. Yeah. But I believe that one. It was a direction pointing us to where we needed to go by God’s divine intervention, but also to save the lives of those women and children that day. Yeah, it was amazing. 

Jeff Johnson:
Wow. I’ve heard it said before that all people of faith have courage. Would you agree with that statement? 

Hassan John:
I will agree with that. Because. Because I would say that for me, in that situation, I just knew that if God wouldn’t save us, then nobody or nothing can. And so at that moment, it’s just simply relying on the Lord to just do what he would choose to do whichever way it went. The thing was to just do again what we felt was in our position to do also. And so we just moved on. 

Jeff Johnson:
Who. Thank you for sharing that story, Hasan. That’s an amazing story and one that I’ve heard before, too, and it still gives me chills. What’s a person that inspires you with courage? Who inspires you when you think about a courageous person. 

Hassan John:
I would say that when we think of a courageous person, I would say there are quite a number of people in the sense that most of the times I think we hear stories about people and heroes. Like you did mention at the beginning of this program, at this podcast, that there are quite a number of people that are heroes. And we, you know, from time to time, a lot of them, you. You’d see them on the news or you hear them speak on television, on the media. You say, well, if I was in that situation, I definitely wouldn’t put my life at risk, you know, from a distance. But the judgment call comes. 

Hassan John:
And I think some of these heroes that we see at some point, as much as we watch or listen to them, they leave something in our hearts that when the time comes, we tend to also do the best we can. Because I think if we do mention so like in Joss, I would say outside a lot of the teaching and the mentoring that I got from my archbishop, Benjamin Kwashi, there are also, I would say, even among us, either with journalists or quite a number of people that have lived their lives, or rather they’ve gone through very dangerous situations trying to do the best they can. From time to time, you get these stories, you meet with people, you sit and have a discussion with them and say, how did you do that? Or what happened when you hear their stories? 

Hassan John:
But let me say, interestingly, Jeff, that I think some of those that really inspired me were where the women and children in those villages that have been to, and I’ve been to more than 150 of them that have suffered one attack or the other. And there are these women and children that even in the face of the threat of death, they will not give up their faith. So that little courage they have, you know, standing on what they believe, standing on the Lord Jesus Christ, that. That is a huge inspiration for me also in. In doing what I have to do. So I think it’s actually just a number of things put together. 

Jeff Johnson:
Yeah, that’s amazing. What. So back to the time when you came and stayed with me. After that, went to an event in Arizona. And I remember when you were getting on your flight to go back home to Nigeria, one of the things that you were bringing back home with you was a big box that had a giant tarp in it. And it had a tarp in it because your church that you were the pastor of back in Joss had been bombed, and so you had a tarp so that you were creating a covering for the church. I’ve never. 

Hassan John:
That’s right. 

Jeff Johnson:
I mean, I hate to chuckle about it, Hassan, but I’ve never been in a church that’s been bombed before. And that was unfortunately not that odd for you. So talk about courage in the face of that. 

Hassan John:
Yeah, so my church was bombed actually twice, Jeff. The first time it was destroyed and bombed. And the idea was to. Was to make sure that were chased out of the community and, you know, Christianity was destroyed in that area. But what we did was we tried to rebuild it and did an appreciable job in rebuilding and roofing and getting, you know, and beginning our church services there. Then it was attacked again and it was destroyed. So this time around, with a couple of friends, and I must do. I must mention here, Brock Oy Wing and Amy Owing from. From Oxford here when I was calling in 2016. But their friends, they contributed some money and got us a tent. We call it the tent of meeting. So they got us a tent now rather than having a building that we will bomb. 

Hassan John:
So we had this huge tent that at the seating capacity of about it will take about 200 people in that tent. So we set it up and then on. So first October is usually our Independence Day celebration here. And on that day, yet again, the church was attacked. Luckily for us, it was. It was on a Friday, so it was destroyed. And so what they did was they brought all the chairs and the. And the huge speakers and the music equipment and set them all on fire with the hope that the church was going to burn. However, again, to God’s intervention, the tent itself didn’t burn, just a huge hole in the center of it. So when I came and stay with you, Jeff. 

Hassan John:
The patch we got on that top was to patch that huge hole, that gaping hole that was left in our church and to continue service. So went back, touched that huge gap in it, and to God’s glory, we kept singing and dancing and praising the Lord and just, you know, enjoying ourselves in the presence of the Lord. 

Jeff Johnson:
Wow, that’s amazing. And yes, you’re speaking of the people that donated. You’re speaking of Frog or Ewing and Amy or Ewing, which are wonderful Christian leaders in the uk and I know great friends of yours and of your ministry. So that’s wonderful. Okay, last question before we let you go here, Hassan. Somebody out there listening is probably facing a opportunity to be brave or to practice courage, and they’re wondering whether or not they should do it or how to be motivated to move forward. How would you encourage people to step out and encourage? 

Hassan John:
Yeah, Jeff, I think the simple answer for me is hold on to Jesus. Look unto the Lord. There are things that our intelligence cannot help. Our capacity and our experiences will fall short whatever we do. There are just times that when we depend on the Lord and we know that the maker of the universe is just right there beside us, he has the capacity to do, it’s all powerful. Then we know absolutely that he is and will intervene at any moment in time if he, you know, chooses that according to his purpose. And I have. 

Hassan John:
So, Jeff, let me put it this way also, that in all these years of challenges and we’ve gone in this in central Nigeria for nearly 15 years now, with every step of the way and every challenge and crisis we faced, my faith had increased because I’ve seen more and more that depending on the Lord, he makes ways where, you know, where it seems impossible for anything to happen. I, I would have been sitting here speaking with you today. I would have been dead long ago if not because of that faith and just a dependency on the Lord. So this is not to say it’s all about, you know, the daily prayer and fasting and doing so many things and activities to please the Lord. 

Hassan John:
No, it’s just that inner confidence and dependency on the Lord, knowing that he is there and surrendering everything to him. And, you know, I, I, I, I don’t know. It’s a little difficult for me to explain because it’s just like being in love. But I’m trying to explain to someone who’s never experienced it what it takes to be in love. So that’s, those are the kind of things. It’s just this connection with the Lord that, you know, that it will be, well, so in the thick of all things, with all the dangers and everything. Jeff. I still go to bed and I still sleep comfortably knowing that the Lord is in charge and he’s in control. 

Jeff Johnson:
Amen. Well put. Trust in the Lord. Hassan. John, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast, my friend. And may the good Lord continue to bless you and may you continue to be an example of courage in God’s mighty hand for all of us. 

Hassan John:
Thank you so much. Jeff. Thank you for the great honor and privilege to be on this podcast. Thank you so much. 

Outro:
Thank you for joining us today on Courageous. If you’d like to hear more about the work and ministry being done at Crossroads Appointments Apologetics, please visit our home on the web at crossroadsapologetics.org Would you or someone you know like to be featured on Courageous? Send us an email at info@crossroadsapologetics.com or info@crossroadsapologetics.org telling us about the most courageous thing you’ve ever done.